stig,Thanks for clearing that up somewhat. You hear and read so much on the net. I agree 1 dog in a pedigree that far back means little as for being DDR.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> What is a Dolf son?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Stig
Amicos was a show kennel. Canto was bought as a show dog not a working dog. I don't know much about Baro the dog but as far as DDR pedigrees go he is not that impressive. People are trying to pass him off as a 100% DDR dog when he isn't. People are also trying to pass him off as a stud dog used by the Swedish Police, which he wasn't. Quote "and he has been extensively used by Swedish Police for his work abilities ". As far as Police officers buying puppies from Baro I have no idea. But the police departments as far as I know don't buy pups. They buy adults that are offered for sale through the police exam system. So I would have thought that these pups are not bought by the depts but rather by the police officers as pets?
I have no reason to doubt Baro is a good dog.
Just not a 100% DDR Police stud <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I don´t argue that Amicos was a showkennel, but so was weinerau to, and lot´s of good dogs has some weinerau far back in the pedigree. A tiny drop of showblood doesn´t always means bad dogs, especially since the line between show and work wasn´t so big back then. I will also say that the breeder in sweden never said that Baro was 100% DDR, but besides canto he is. Maybe you know the breeder?, grådalens kennel, they worked together with kottorps kennel before, and I´ve seen on your site that you cooperate with them.
I also think it´s wrong to promote Baro as a stud used by the police, but some experienced K9-officers buys pups and when they are ready go through the exam systems, and I guess this is what the breeder I talked to meant when he said several K9-officers in sweden has pups after Baron that shows good talents for servicework. According to the breeder Baro has also several strong dogs produced in germany, and in his over 20 SCH-trails he was always rated high for his fightdrive and courage.

I have never really understood the argument that backyard breeders lower the amount of good working dogs,

it is true that backyard breeders (or confirmation breeders) breed many times bad dogs , however as long as good breeders are still working towards improving what they deem necessary in the breed (working charac.) then you are still going to have just as many good working dogs, just more mediocre dogs too.

for example, Ed doesnt doesnt offer his males up for stud. the crap breeders around do not influence his bloodlines at all, my guess is this is how most working line kennels work, they either dont breed outside or are very selective.

 Quote:

Originally posted by dj:
I have never really understood the argument that backyard breeders lower the amount of good working dogs,

it is true that backyard breeders (or confirmation breeders) breed many times bad dogs , however as long as good breeders are still working towards improving what they deem necessary in the breed (working charac.) then you are still going to have just as many good working dogs, just more mediocre dogs too.

backyard breeders do more than just hurt the breed by producing crappy dogs (or "pet quality" if you want to call them that). They hurt the reputation of the breed when they're producing out of standard dogs, fear biters, dogs that don't even match what the breed is supposed to be. You get dogs that can't work, poor in conformation, bad hips, bad elbows, poor temperments, etc etc etc; and John Q Public who doesn't know that much buys those shitty dogs then bad mouths GSDs from that point on. Or Officer Friendly, who's looking for the next potential candidate has to look through more dogs, sift through the BS, and find a good dog.

 Quote:

also posted by dj:

for example, Ed doesnt doesnt offer his males up for stud. the crap breeders around do not influence his bloodlines at all, my guess is this is how most working line kennels work, they either dont breed outside or are very selective.

it's not just "working line kennels", but true SV style "high line kennels" work this way as well. A true breeder who is dedicated to the breed will be very picky, not just because it's their reputation on the line, but they care enough not to produce crap and want to produce the best dogs possible. It's a matter of the owner of the stud being very selective and the owner of the bitch needing to be very critical to get the most out of the potential combination, that's a good breeding.

I couldnt agree with you more, it isnt that the good dogs arent there , but that there are more dogs to weed through, its not like many have said earlier that the "american" shepherd is ruining the breed. They arent ,they are giving it a bad name, they are creating a different GSD than what you or I would care to have, but the good dogs will still be there (as we see it) and they obviously must like what they are producing, although I dont see how , but it is their choice and really I could care less what they produce... as long as the good ones are still around.

Good post Mike! All backyard breeders are not the same as you know. How many dogs do you have to breed or get bred to not be a backyard breeder? :rolleyes: <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Give me a break!
One or two good results from a breeding from a small kennel is much better then some of the trash I've seen from Big for Profit kennels.

Not everyone has the money to go out and buy everyones dogs that are already somewhat proven.

Where do you start: With a good foundation/keep it that way/cull the pups that don't meet your standard. Do not repeat the same breeding until the pups prove themselves. does this slow down your efforts to produce great dogs,YES IT DOES. Then again what are your goals, A few great pups are a lot of pups to sell.
But what do I know! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />