There are two separate issues here. One is to decide if a correction is needed and the other is to match your dog’s hardness with the level of correction given. The proper timing and use of corrections is a whole other topic. The original question asked if a dog of a given age was too young for a prong collar. Age is not a factor in decided to use a prong collar. Age is a factor on deciding to give a correction. But if you are deciding on a tool I assume that the decision to give a correction has already been made. Now it’s time to match the correction to his hardness. This could range from a prong collar for a 12 week old pup or a stern look for a 7 year old SchH 3 dog. To learn more about how to find the right level for your dog check out Ed’s tape on Basic Dog Obedience . It goes into this and alot more.

Thank-you very much Vince. That is exactly the point. My reply was a bit too wordy and did not really address the question. But I'm learning.

This board has been a real eye-opener as far as information goes. I've been watching it for a year, before I decided to join.

Max is my first dog. He'll be 9 in April and turned out to be a great dog despite some of my bumbling efforts. I've learned a lot since I first got him, and my only concern is that others not make some of the training mistakes I did. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Just as an update for everyone,

I like Caniche here, only had to use 3 corrections for the car chasing at night. I like Caniche as well do not use a flexi anymore on the streets, 6 foot leash now. I almost learend that lesson the real hard way, and it scared the life right out of me.

Caniche, I do not think your first post was to wordy, I personally love to read others experences, and I'm sure others do as well, that is why I come here, to read real wordy and complex issues and try and figure them out! On the other hand I also love Vince P. and VanCamp's method of K.I.S.S. very effective.

I really think the bottom line here for me, was I asked the question first, then made judgment and acted in my pups best intrest, and something I could live with as well. and it worked! Don't we wish everyone for all time had a great place like this to come to for help? Ed's going to need his own server soon for the gigs of posts here. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Thank-you very much Lonny.

Just some info about me. Max is a black standard poodle. When I first got him I thought I knew a lot, because I'm in the library field and read about dogs and training all the time (for years really). I even went to shows and demos. Well, let me tell you, practical experience is everything. I was shaking in my boots the first month I had him because I realized I didn't know ANYTHING. I know Ed, public obedience classes before a dog is 6 months old is not your cup of tea, but to a new dog owner it was heaven.

Max learned exercises in less than 5 repeats. With food and affection, he would do anything for me most of the time. What the books don't usually emphasize though, is temperment and personality. I didn't know about hard and soft temperments, etc. Now, through this board, a great section on training a retrieving poodle on the Versatility in Poodles board, and through some of my own insight over the years, I would approach training a new dog with a whole different perspective.

I still agree with obedience classes, but I will never again make the same mistakes. 3 years ago I refused to do an exercise/correction because it would have traumatized him. I'm just sorry Max (who is a dream dog) had to go through some of this.

The past 2 years were tough and he was slightly neglected. My mom had MS and then was rediagnosed with cancer. Both she and my grandmother passed away last April. I now feel I have the heart to do some doggy stuff again. I've enrolled him in a novice refresher class (mainly for socialization) and in the fall we'll start agility again. He is active and very healthy for a 9 year old. The vet is always amazed at his condition.

Thanks for listening. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Your very welcome Caniche <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for sharing your experence, it is important for beginers to see that we all started like they are and feel comfortable posting here, some of the folks here really intimaded me when I first got here and I felt stupid asking seemingly stupid questions, now look at me, can't shut up! Eben me speelign si gettign beater!

Well I do not feel stupid in asking dumb questions so here goes: What is the K.I.S.S. method?

Vince,

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid

KISS

K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Stupid. It stems from the Hargothian Style Of Scuba Diving Rigging, for Penetration and cave divers. Also the name of a closed circut, manual O2 injection rebreather system developed here in BC.

Lonny...I think we're in the same boat when it comes to doggies.
Gus is 6 months and weighs about 65lbs. He was just put on a prong collar.
Boy oh boy that was an experience Gus will never forget.
And AZ you were right about the line he came from...he is weak when it comes to the correction.
And another thing, I don't think I'm looking at what will he be capable of doing in the future I'm doing this one step at a time and am not in a rush to have him titled or make a blueprint of his life until he is 10yrs.
Hardest thing to admit is when you make a mistake with training. And I have made a lot by overcorrecting with the leash instead of other methods.
I have three more weeks of basic OB, but I don't expect him to be perfect. I always have to remember to put him in the best situation to have him WIN instead of getting a correction.

Take care all!
Kathy <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Kathy, It would seem that we are at the same level of training with our doggies! Sure is fun!

Good post BTW I think alot of people fall into that catagory of wrong corrections, steming from a lack of true knowledge on how to correct properly, I know I did.