What a mess. :rolleyes:

Only about half of any of you are right about half of the time concerning this. I don't have time to write now but Linda you know your dog has a problem so avoid the situations that lead up to it. Your dog cannot be trusted no matter the training you employ.
There is no 100% in this area.
Know what you own.
I think you do.
So do the right thing and contain the dog.

This dog because will be much a happier not being placed in situations that causes his fear responses. This is not about leadership but one of common sense. The dog has a temperament problem no matter what is said with regarded to underling and/or supporting causes of his reaction.

Todd Gaster wrote: If you are holding a leash and he tries to hide behind you
and someone reaches out for him. He tries to bite? This is not fear aggression. This is a dog in fight or flight
mode. You have taken the flight so the only choice left is to fight.

Chris:
So what says this is not fear aggressive. The dog is clearly in fear and acting aggressively by biting because his limited option. In other words, his act of aggression (biting) is based off of fear.

Todd Gaster wrote: If you are holding a leash and he tries to hide behind you
and someone reaches out for him. He tries to bite? This is not fear aggression. This is a dog in fight or flight
mode. You have taken the flight so the only choice left is to fight.

Chris:
So what says this is not fear aggressive. The dog is clearly in fear and acting aggressively by biting because his limited option. In other words, his act of aggression (biting) is based off of fear.

Maybe I'm lost here.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> :rolleyes:

If the dog is being constrained by the leash.
The dog has no other option then to attempt to protect themselves. You call it what you want, Fear Aggresssion/Fight/whatever???.

I would call it Fear Aggression only.
Why, the dog is scared of whatever and the owner has taken away the NATURAL thing for it to do. RUN! RUN! and RUN ! When confronted with the Unknown/or Bad Experience.

In my Opinion a dog with FIGHT DRIVE will not cower behind the person on th end of a leash. My GSD will take the fight to you, this is what I call FIGHT DRIVE. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Then what do I know I'm still learning everyday about dogs and their behaviour. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Linda posted: Knuckles was fearful from the day we got him, and any raised voices such as my daughters arguing sent him running. He is afraid of the wind, loud noises, etc.

Butch's Thoughts: This dog will always be fearful. No amount of traning/conditioning for the dog or owners will change the genetics of this dog.
Will it be able to COPE with everyday experiences, we all have our own OPINIONS as to what should happen.

Only the owners can make the CORRECT DECISION for this dog. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Let's hope that all the KNOWLEDGE that can be OBTAINED on this Forum Board does NOT GO UNHEEDED!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Dennis and Chris, you are about the only 2 people here that have made any sense.

Dennis- I agree there is no need to put my dog in situations that stress him, so I don't. Specifically postal workers and paper boys (BAGS)

I have handed my dog off to the trainer, my friends, my family, etc

He has never tried to bit them, or growled, snarled, etc. He tries to stay close to my husband and I.

I have no problem with people in the house, and he has improved 90% when it comes to strangers.

He sees us as his safety zone (unless of course the trainer/behaviorists evaluation is completely wrong)

Chris, your question/analysis is exactly what the evaulation people said, fight or flight is based in fear.

Regarding any comments about anything I posted on other sites - since you are not required to use your real name there its easy to through barbs.

DeeDee you must have a lot of time on your hands to list every topic I have posted a REPLY to.

Such has prong covers- my post gave a web link on were to buy.

Electric collars- did I do something incorrectly.
95% of my posts which were replies had nothing to do with my dogs- UNTIL TODAY

I have responded to posts stating what my experiences have been.

I have not asked for a bunch of advice from folks here.

So, this is a public forum and I will post as I chose, and do not need your permission.

Sorry, Butch- you were posting when I was posting.
You make sense too. You are correct I will never change the genetics of this dog.
I was not a strong leader, neither was my husband. We made the problem worse. We are working on fixing the problem. TRAINING, TRAINING,TRAINING.
The stronger we are as leaders, the more I see the confidence of the dog growing.

Thanks-

Chris, your question/analysis is exactly what the evaulation people said, fight or flight is based in fear.
Um, no. It is based in survival.

This is not about leadership but one of common sense. The dog has a temperament problem no matter what is said with regarded to underling and/or supporting causes of his reaction.
We can all try and diagnose the symptoms. Why not go for the cause.

So what says this is not fear aggressive. The dog is clearly in fear and acting aggressively by biting because his limited option. In other words, his act of aggression (biting) is based off of fear. I am not convinced this owner has a clue what the dog is demonstrating. I am basing this on the 'appearence' she spends more time defending what has been done, than actually thinking about and contemplating what has happened.

The stronger we are as leaders, the more I see the confidence of the dog growing.
Seems like I mentioned something like that. The dog doesn't see you as a leader...

It is called copy and paste, and I am fully aware that it is a public forum, and that you don't need my permission. I listed those posts as an example... aggression was the one you were on the most-which says something to me. I didn't take the time to read back on them. My part of the mud slinging has come to an end...if you like you can PM me I with any more comments, insults or anything else that comes to mind, I however am not going to waste any more thread on you-your dogs etc.

Let's just say regardless of the underlying causes my dog has weak nerves, and is fearful.

Call it fear, survival, whatever, the dog is not confident.

I may not have been a strong leader, but I am now.
Yes I have a clue has to what the dog is
demonstrating.

Unless my trainer is totally incompetent, which he is not, we continue to make progress

To all that had something intelligent to say, I thank you.