Hi Todd
so by doing your research you learned how we type our date in German, it s first the month then the year.
Further it s easy to find the pedigree of the mentioned dogs for my upcoming litter by checking at the pedigreedatabase,if you already found Eule vom schwarzen Drachen which you mention above, it s only one more step, by looking up her offspring to find Cinto von der schwarzen Eule,he s a son out her.
To my opinion that means research <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ,which is necessary before trying to give someone a lecture about their linebreedings or breedings in general
Bye Jutta

WTF??? Thank you again for clearing up how Germans type the date. If the date was anywhere on your website I might find that useful.

 Quote:

Further it s easy to find the pedigree of the mentioned dogs for my upcoming litter by checking at the pedigreedatabase

Again, thank you for your education in this. The pedigreedatabase is down. You have the links to pedigrees on your site of your other dogs, these you chose to use the database. Which as I said is down. So no, it is not easy as you say to find the information.

 Quote:

To my opinion that means research ,which is necessary before trying to give someone a lecture about their linebreedings or breedings in general

Yes, I have done research. I will continue to do research. There was no lecture on your breedings or linebreedings. I said "IF" you are talking about a certain breeding it doesn't suit my needs. I think you need to get off you high horse and quit wearing your feelings on your sleeve.


Thank you for the education though.

 Quote:

To my opinion that means research ,which is necessary before trying to give someone a lecture about their linebreedings or breedings in general

Maybe you should try and learn the english language before you start lecturing.

OK guys... enough of the SENSLESS bantering about who has what where on a website... who needs to learn what language, etc.

Either the thread continues in a CIVIL manner, or it gets canned.

ps. the database IS back up now...

no problem. My apologies Deanna. just felt like was getting attacked...anyway.

After again doing research on the afore mentioned upcoming litter. Cinto/Lara. I have some questions. Trying to educate myself you know.

4 - 4 in V Fero vom Zeuterner Himmelreich

4 - 4 in SG Mink vom Haus Wittfeld

5 - 5 in V Harro aus der Lechrainstadt

5 - 5 in SG Perle vom Rosenbusch

5 - 5 in V Flori vom Berglein

5 - 5 in SG Cora vom Haardblick

5 - 5in G Ylo vom Waldeckerhof Now, I may be figuring this wrong so please someone help me. To me this looks like a 4-4 Fero, 4-4 Mink and a 5-5 Harro.

Perle, Flori, Cora, and Ylo are already accounted for aren't they? Through Fero and Mink.

If we bred Emma(Dar/Mara) to JR(CJ/Danu) Danu and Mara are both out of Otis. Wouldn't that be a linebreeding on Otis, not Mink Otis' father?

Also, I see Cinto was whelped 01/05/2000(using European dates). I know it happens sometimes but I don't see any titles on Cinto. What is the reasoning for this? Like I said, I know stuff happens(Mara and Danu are untitled) just curious as to the reason for this.

I dont wanna go into more by this kind of talk anyway ,thats not my understanding of dogsport and the exchange of information between breeders and doghandlers,what this board at least is meant for .
But just as further information
The breeding rules for Germans in the SV
are breedsurvey ( Koerung)+ DNA
For the breedsurvey the dog must have at least SchH1/IPO1 or HGH (under SV-Judge),showrating minimum G, a1-a3hips, AD (indurancetrial)
Otherwise you aint get pink papers for your puppies.
There are several other things to respect but this would get to much, i think the most know about those breedrules anyway.
So all of my litters in the past and future are bred to those rules, so Cinto is titled + breedsurvey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I wish all breeders would follow the SV qualifications for breeding, such as Jutta. Why would a breeder not follow SV guidelines? If you care about the working Shepherd get with the program. If it takes too much time or money to title your dogs then don't breed. It is simple as that. Make your dog prove it has some working ability, any type of work: Police, Schutzhund, S&R, Avalanch dog, Guidedog etc. How many times have we heard about how a breeders dogs could be SchH 3 or a police dog with no problem, but are untitled and bred anyway. We have some very knowledgeable breeders on this board who follow SV guidelines, but we also have allot of computer expert breeders who follow only there own rules.

Brad

Originally posted by Brad Stout:
I wish all breeders would follow the SV qualifications for breeding, such as Jutta. Why would a breeder not follow SV guidelines? If you care about the working Shepherd get with the program. If it takes too much time or money to title your dogs then don't breed. It is simple as that. Make your dog prove it has some working ability, any type of work: Police, Schutzhund, S&R, Avalanch dog, Guidedog etc. How many times have we heard about how a breeders dogs could be SchH 3 or a police dog with no problem, but are untitled and bred anyway. We have some very knowledgeable breeders on this board who follow SV guidelines, but we also have allot of computer expert breeders who follow only there own rules.

Brad I have seen some of the best dogs come from the SV program. But I will tell you, I have seen alot of garbage produced by those guidlines. To me it means nothing to say both parents are SV pink papered KKL dogs. The working folks in Germany will tell the same thing. I would bet the farm that if you went to Germany and lifted all of the requirments of titles and KKL you would see most of the folks that Koer etc thier dogs, breeding without it. I respect people that do accomplish this, but for some it is far from thier reach. The KKL means nothing for working ability. A sch title, there is questions. I have worked great dogs that came from untitled parents, that are suited for any type of work. If in a country the size of the States followed the SV guildlines, then I will tell you, you would not get far in a breeding program in America, given the amount of numbers we are talking about. I will agree that it would be nice to see people that breed thier dogs, and make claims of this and that prove it every few generations, of course, but every dog? I am not a breeder, so I gain nothing from this. But I like a good working dog, and I'll tell the numbers that are coming from Germany are decreasing. So there must be something wrong.

Brad said "Why would a breeder not follow SV guidelines?"

Brad, have you looked at the availability of shows and surveys in this country? We don't live in a country the size of a postage stamp and there are not trials and shows I can drive to within 2 hrs every weekend. Yes, there were two conformation shows in my region since I purchased my bitch... one the weekend after I got her off the plane, and the other in the middle of June. The opportunities just aren't there for people to stick 100% to SV rules in this country.

Ok, so show dog people do it... all the time, but have you seen what they charge for their puppies? They send them off to title which costs$$$ and who pays for it? The puppy buyers. Maybe you think $3500 is a worthy investment in a pup, I don't. Damn thing better be able to make me omelettes for that much money... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

It is easy to sit back and say how things should be. If you are so dead set that it is all wrong, why not try your hand at this?

I agree 100% with Deanna.

Plus, the show people do it beacause thats all there dogs are truly capable of is conformation. I wouldnt pay a dime for one nor would I take one if payed to do so.
They sqeeze by in obtaining titles at the most and some SV show judges should not be judges at all.

Some stuff I see the show GSD clan doing really sickens me.

Deanna,

Boo Hoo, Nobody said dog training was easy, thats why so few people title their dogs. It is easier to breed untitled dogs and make a quick buck. As for conformation, I am a working dog enthusist. Only show to get a rating. Try may hand at what? Showing in schutzhund, I do and have titled 2 dogs to SchH1 this year. Breeding I don't have enough experience to be a breeder, but enjoy talking bloodlines, and giving people that are too lazy to get out and train a bad time. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to express myself.

Brad
Grim vom Frolich Haus SchH1
Vandalen's Emma SchH1