I see this threat has started a race around the stupid track. . .


Jenn,I never commented on Howard, his dog, or his handling of the dog. Don't connect Howard's references about his dog and my comments please.


All I said is that social aggression, as outlined by myself and by the post offered by Ivan from Armin Winkler, is a trait I like to see in a working dog.


Don't get all crazy. LOL

Chris, that was damn rude. . .but the last few comments WERE extremely funny.


I'm gonna use that Agility reference in the future, that ones still killing me.


Lets clean it up here folks from here on in. LOL

The trend in breeding has been to breed dogs who do not have social aggression. And that may be what many people want. The point I would like to make is that social aggression is nothing that should be made out to be something evil. It is a valuable trait in dogs that are in the right hands. Such dogs do demand a high degree of responsibility and vigilance on the part of the handler. Socially aggressive dogs who are also dominant are difficult to handle and to train and should be in the hands of experts.

Jenn:
Once again I absolutely agree with that and the degree of 'expert' needed must be phenominal

Now this I disagree with - any fairly good handler with a few dogs under their belt should be able to handle a dog like this. I certainly don't consider myself an expert, I am only an interested student of the sport. And anybody that showed responsibility and some common sense( and was able to bodily handle ) could own and handle my dog.

fairly good handler with a few dogs under their belt See how I can again agree! And I think your underestimate the value of you being a good handler the skills and abilities that involves. I know people that have had dogs for years and still know nothing about training them properly.


But I'm agreeing with the handler dealing with the issue. Not just shrugging their shoulders with the 'my dog is socially aggressive' or 'dog aggressive' of 'prey driven'.

And because I am trying to learn more about dogs and handling/training issues all the time, I went to the sites posted and now am much more knowledgeable about the different drives and aggressions. And how to train and work with a dog that is displaying them.

Thanks to everyone who didn't resort to personal attacks on me and my background and have more open minds to others interested in these topics. Good thing I know my strengths, know my skills, know my dogs and love the way I'm raising them. And that's everyone's goal, right?

. Maybe this is just a guy thing. I like to get down and play wrestle with my dogs nothing serious just sometimes it gets a little rough and I know the limits with this dog. I dont do it to see how far I can push the dog until she flips out. I like to have fun with my dogs and I wont stop doing it

Heh heh I know exactly what you are talking about, because I do that all the time with my dog, actually with every dogs that I owned, I know for sure that to the dogs and I it is just plain fun and game, they love it, I use that as a reward when I don't have a tug or ball in my hand or when I ran out of food, I get down and wrestle with them, got to mark that good behavior some how. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Khoi Pham

since this thread hasn't been closed down yet, i'd like to throw this in the mix:
what i really like to see in a dog is the self-assurance and confidence that other dogs will not even challenge, therefor no need for any display of social aggression. maturity is required here. the dog is controlled and self-disciplined. he acknowledges the presence of other dogs, but is not interested in them. he has the attitude of, "i don't start fights, but i finish them." i personally, don't have much patience with a dog that is challenging other dogs all the time. they are a pain in the butt. and i don't have much respect for an owner or handler that allows that kind of behavior. i'm not a believer in socializing dogs with other dogs, but they should be able to be in the same place with others without trying to bring on a fight. example: two people are walking dogs and meet on the sidewalk. the dogs should be able to pass by without trying to fight. "come on", "leave it", "no", or "be nice" should be all that is necessary to keep your dog moving with you.
veterinarian offices provide an excellent opportunity to see how other dogs behave. every now and then you'll find one that wants to eat every other dog that comes through the door. if you have to wait long for your appointment, you will be thankful that he is not going home with you.

Howard,

What club/helpers do you train with? How has the dog done in a trial situation?

Am familiar with the dam of your dog - husband has worked her.