Chris
Your theory makes sense to me. In doing earthwork with terriers, we've learned to trust certain dogs that will walk away from holes with no one home, and others who may be great trackers, will act like every hole is full. Most of the good markers come from parents who do the same.
The bloodhounds being ther only dogs admissable in court, is one of those "urban legands" that won't go away, IMHO.

I tend to agree with OldE's contention. Although I do think that there is a certain amount of physical characteristics (nose structure) that play a part, the dog's drive to hunt is important as well. I'm not convinced that the length of the nose is the only physical trait that affects scenting ability. But, there is no doubt in my mind that short muzzled dogs such as pugs and bulldogs aren't the greatest scenters in the world.

uncropped dobe owner - wismz wrote: Lou, Nowhere in your incoherent rambling did you come anywhere close to a rational thought. Everyone on this board is now dumber from reading your post. I award you 1 star and my God have mercy on your sole.

LC: Robert I’m sorry to have offended you so badly. Rarely have I seen such a personal attack on this board except for a few notable exceptions, and even those had a big build-up before they became personal. But your attack came out of a clear blue sky.

LC: You wrote, “Everyone on this board is now dumber from reading your post.” Actually you seem to be the only one. I’d suggest that in the future YOU avoid reading any of my posts. You can’t spare the I.Q. points. I’m going to resist commenting on your feeling that God should have mercy on the bottom of one of my shoes; but perhaps English is your second language.

uncropped dobe owner - wismz wrote: Do you know the difference between Lou Castle and a K-9 Officer? The K-9 Officer doesn’t think he’s a Lou Castle.

LC: Roberty I’m not a K-9 officer. I’m a has-been. I was a K-9 handler from November of 1979 until March of 1985. Then I was the trainer for my department for the next 15 years or so (depending on which Lieutenant or Captain I pissed off) until I was recently sidelined by injuries. It was only at that time that the department hired an outside vendor to do the maintenance training.

LC: Thanks to Butch Crabtree, L Swanston, Lonny B., Aren Dickman, Michael Talyor Rivers, Jeannette and oldearthdog for their kind comments.

LC: and just to keep some adherence to this topic . . . Uncropped wrote elsewhere: Well the reason for them using bloodhounds is that bloodhounds are the only dogs whos sent work can be admitted in a court of law.

LC: Nonsense. ANY dog whose training records support the fact that they can trail or track can have their work admitted in court.

Uncropped wrote: According to 29 American Jurisprudence 2d #575 you can use a Bloodhound scent in court if it meets certain guidelines. Here is a link:

LC: That applies to any dog. The author of the website has merely applied it to bloodhounds alone because that’s his business.

rottweiler_fancier wrote: I'm not sure where I heard it but I heard that the folds of a skin on a bloodhounds face allow it to "collect airborne scents"

LC: I once was told that because their ears hang down below their jowls it stirs up the scent better than those dogs with stand-up ears. While either or both of these physical characteristics may help the detection of scent, it’s just a matter of degree.

I love the bloodhound argument. It is a little like the idea that more people drowned if they have just eaten than if they wait a half hour. Someone many years back did a study to find it was all BS, but how many of us heard that gospel truth as we grew up?
It also became a part of folklore that bloodhounds are able to do amazing feats of scenting prowess and no one asked if they really could.
Around the hound a culture appeared, very much centered on the corrections departments around the country, a place where everything the organization does is to keep there from being the need for application of the hounds so real information was scetchy.
This culture has grown and often the fantasy of the scenting dog has grown also. To the extent that cases in the 9th and 10th circuits have seen some interessting turns due to bloodhound handlers work and testimony. These cases do not boon well for the hound.
It is not that the hound cannot track because they can. I have even seen some phenominal teams, but I have also seen the same among other breeds.
The British did a recent study that showed that the hounds were no better than their GSD patrol dogs. These were specialty hounds that were weighed against a selection of just old patrol dogs that did multiple behaviors one of which was tracking.
If you like tracking with a bloodhound do so. But, get out and track, document, test, evaluate, and do it all over again for many years. Don't brag, speculate, and spin yarns about the damned critters, cause one day you'll have to strut you stuff in front of someone who understands dogs and who can see through the BS and story telling and know if your dog is working.

Lou

Just thought I'd let you know I agreed with what you actually said in your post. It made perfect sense to me - sometimes the myth is larger than the dog <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Anyway, I believe that the principle of this board is the exchange of ideas and opinions conducted in a civilized manner.

Luv the dig about the "sole" I hate bad spelling


Gwen

 Quote:

The quality of a tracking dog has less to do with his ability to smell than his desire to hunt.

Chris, that makes sense to me also.
We've had a lot of fun with my daughters cockpoo who can easily follow a short FS track. Could that dog compete with a gsd or BH? Certainly not! But not because she can't scent well or that she lacks a scent drive. The limitations are size, coat, stamina, and probably the amount of hunt drive needed to stay a long course. But I don't know that, since I've never had any desire to put in time to test it. I do know she can do a short track with serpentines and corners.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

BTW, one source for that theory that BH's scent better because of the folds in their skin is the Animal Planet's "Breed all about it", which program showcase's individual breeds of dogs.

Like somebody said, it's the handler not the dog. Any dog can do tracking and yall probably know that. A Pit Bull or a Beagle can do a good job of tracking then a GSD and a BH.

Wizmo,

Where was the rational thought in your response? Please, either educate us all or at the very least show a little respect to fellow board members. If you don't agree with Lou, feel free to debate him. Your response was nonsense and this kind of crap has no place here. If you were attempting to be funny then I apologize. I don't think that was your intention though. For the sake of those who wish to discuss this issue I will leave the thread open.

Heck, I go on vacation and come back to this??? What have you folks ben doing since I left? Geesh.

I want to know who sh*t in WIZMOS cheerios? Get a clue.

Bloodhounds bloodhounds bloodhounds. Hey, I know what about the difference between working line BH's and show line? Which can scent better???

I knew if I re-visited this thread we would get some good responses. Thank you Kevin and Lou.

When people are selling bloodhounds as their business, you can see why the wording could confuse someone that doesn't have a lot of experience with K9s.

Todd, you better can it with that argument. I don't wanna see any blood shed in this thread!