I'll be blunt. Any AKC involvement in working breeds diminishes the breeds working ability. The new seperation of Border Collies into a "look pretty" vs. the dogs that are used to work stock is just an example.
The AKC has d**m near ruined the GSD as a breed here in the U.S. They need to just re-name the breed as the American Shepherd and be done with it. An AKC working dog title will be a joke, nothing more. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Very frightening indeed! I echo the same concerns as Old E. All those lunatics that are incapable of breeding a stable dog are now going to think it is cute to have a chihuahua on a sleeve. 'All breeds' are not meant to do protection work. What will happen now?

This has nothing to do with ego's. Its pure money and power.
How long have we (the working dog people) been telling people that the American shepherd could never work properly. They dont have the nerves or temperment, etc.
A.K.C. wants to start competing and inning in the Sieger! But to get in the dog has to have a working dog title.So this is how the dog will get tier title.And make one hell of a lot of money doing it.

Ron

Intresting. The problem with the AKC entering the Seiger Show is that they are going to have to intergrate some heavy duty German Show Lines if they are going to do well. This will (MAYBE) bring a bit more working ability into the bloodline and hopefully have an effect on the breed over-all.

As American's we have not done a good job with promoting and producing good German Shepherds over-all. While there are some, we still import over and over again our top dogs. There are few breeder's that compete at the top with thier dogs and thus create exposure so people will see this as an option for them to obtain a working dog from American bred bloodlines but this is rare.

Schutzhund in America is by far too small. There are simply not enough people involved in Schutzhund for our population. The distance that we travel to go to a club or trial in this country is pretty much unheard of in Europe for the average sporting dog person.

The problem with AKC getting involved with this is that unless some hard-core working folk get in quickly, it is doomed before it begins. If USA has no future then everyone must take stock, and re-think what they are going to do and decide if they will be part of something or nothing at all.

The AKC has money and is the big dog on the block. Smaller organizations cannot fight nor block this. Sad but true.

The only other option that I see is that DVG will be the place for working folk that want to compete on the international arena if they do not want to get in with AKC.

Lee,

THe idea that the AKC has little to no influence over a breed is a nice thought, proposed by the AKC (i.e. "It's not our responsibility"), but it isn't and never has been born out in reality.The idea that GDSCA is in total contol of the GSD standard is negated by the AKC's position on protection training. If GDSCA says that they recomend that all breeding stock:

1- Have hip, elbow, and eye certification
2- Be rated as conforming to the Conformation standard
3- Have a SchH 1,2,or 3
4- Sponsor opportunities to gain those certifications

The AKC would invoke their stated policy. Which is "This would include Schutzhund, as well as any other activity involving the biting, grabbing or attacking of a person; and that failure to comply with this policy will result in the revocation of a club's show and/or trial privileges." They have in fact used this policy in the past against the Doberman club and the Rott club. The idea that they don't shape the appearance and temperament of the breeds affiliated with the AKC denies what has happened in most of the breeds that have turned over their control of the stud books to the AKC. There Clubs that have have maintained their breeds by encouraging just such ativities. The AKC approves Judges and sets standards for the performance trials they will allow. The AKC board reviews and approves what is and is not acceptable to the AKC, not the individual breed clubs. If that was not the case, why is Schutzhund banned?

The AKC is a bully. They have been for years. The appeasement of a bully doesn't work. There have been breed clubs that have rejected AKC affiliation and simply refused to disband even though the AKC has assumed their breed over their objections, have maintained their desired goal in the breed they love. The idea that we must accept the AKC and that we have no ability to create what we desire in the breeds we love is a fatalist position that isn't working.

Lee
Though I am heavy into GSD I honestly can not respond to what you say, as I dont have first hand knoledge, But I do know that there are also two factions in the Labrador world. And I know that those who work there dogs at "Trials" as apposed to "Hunt tests" tell AKCwhat to do in regards to standards. The one that spends the most money has the say.
If this go's through the only way WE can prevail in this is to spend a lot more time and money putting our working dogs in the lime light.The average pet owner doesn't give a crap about working ability they want a soft manipulative, pretty dog.And that is why they breed there dogs that way. We need to get involved with AKC at the start, and try to influence them.Or get ready to try harder to sell the WORKING dog type to the public.

Ron

Richard is essentially correct, Lee.

If you were to look at the history behind the GSDCA and the GSDCA-WDA you would agree. The AKC has tied the hands of the breed clubs with their policy and their phylosophy of emasculating all the working breeds. The ONLY reason the GSDCA was able to force the AKC to turn a blind eye was because it was at that the the largest breed club in the country, the largest cash cow for the AKC.

Other clubs were not so lucky. The Doberman Pinscher Club of America is a perfect example.

Every decision the AKC makes is anti-working ability. For example the Neopolitan Mastiff.

There were two breed clubs that were up for AKC recongnition. The first, the largest, followed the FCI standard and the traditional breeding goals and policy of showing. The Neo is a serious protection breed, they should be sharp to all strangers, and as a result in international conformation competition it is against the rules for them to be handled during shows. They should show a sharpness to the judge and often will not suffer to be toughed by someone they don't know. That reaction is essential to their job as a big slow yard or house dog. To scare people off and aggress to strangers. This club here in America should have been the prime canditate. . .they follow all the traditional standards in breeding and showing. The international standard, the one writen by the breedwardens in it's native land.

The other goup here in the US was breeding away from the protective temperament of the Neo, they flat out stated that they disagree with the FCI standard and flat out stated that they disagree with the Neo's "poor temperament". They breed for color, size, bone, and wrinkles. . .

Guess which breed club the AKC chose to represent the Neo here in the US? It's a no brainer.

The AKC does impact the working breeds in just about every way they can.

Originally posted by VanCamp, Robert:

The AKC does impact the working breeds in just about every way they can. For a real eye opener regarding AKC's destructive policies toward working breeds, read about AKC's hostile takeover of the border collie breed.

http://www.bordercollie.org/akc.html

Laura Sanborn