My thoughts?
What you think will happen isn't backed up by facts, sorry.
If you study the issue you'll see that dogs that will actually protect their owners during an attack are incredibly rare.
And the Staff breeds are low on the end of defensive of their owners ( and I've studied *hundreds* of documented events now for my book, I may actually have the best data-base for this type of information in the country now )

A non-trained dog can function nicely by deterring a event from occurring, but it takes an exceptional dog ( usually with significant training ) to attack stop an attack once the attack physically starts.
That's where dog owners get over-confident and wander off into fantasy land regarding the capabilities of their dogs.....

Interesting, what criteria are used to define "defense"? Perhaps with these types of dogs it is the "scuffle" that provokes them....however our experience is what ever does provoke my dog his target ends up being the person other than one of us.....like I said before he has no problems following through, he has held an intruder down at one of my dads stores until my father could recover and get help, I guess maybe it is just Buddy.....

Would certainly be interested in your publication once available, sounds very interesting <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I use the term "defense" here as:

- A physical attack on the owner with intent of serious bodily harm ( so not just a yelling match or something minor )
- The dog engages the attacker with strong force and a dedicated attack ( not a dancing rear bite and retreat - that may just show prey drive ) causing the perp a severe enough injury to require actual medical attention.

Dissecting the many documented events that claimed to show a dog was working to defend it's owner, it was easy to see that over 50% of tem were just prey behavior with the dog not committed to the owner's defense.

This has actually been a real cool use of my time, I have learned *a lot* about the actual mechanism of dog defensive behavior against humans - which unfortunately has lead me to the inescapable conclusion that it's far more rare than people think.

Most folks have a strong "wish-fulfillment" type approach to their idea that their dog will protect them during an attack. The data says otherwise.

QUOTE: Most folks have a strong "wish-fulfillment" type approach to their idea that their dog will protect them during an attack. The data says otherwise END

I'm curious about the impact of this research and your findings on your book. Will this mean that the focus of the book will have to change, or did the focus always assume the secondary*, or back-up (or diversionary) role of the dog in PPD success?

*Or maybe I mean "first line only"

No, I had observed the truth of the matter for several years now, it just gave me a factual basis to back up my observations.
Had the data proved my previous conclusions wrong...when then I would have had to back up and re-group a bit, for sure.

But the training portion of my book is what I consider to be the most important part - the documentation part about the fact that most dogs can't/ won't protect their owner's just makes proper selection and training of the dogs that can fullfill that role even more important.

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Dissecting the many documented events that claimed to show a dog was working to defend it's owner, it was easy to see that over 50% of tem were just prey behavior with the dog not committed to the owner's defense.

Does this mean that the data indicated the other 50% were acting as dedicated protectors, or something else?

When I think about it, neither of my dogs being trained for this, one is very dedicated and one is more like you discribe the data best represents....50%. Buddy definately shows deliberate signs of protection - for example if my daughter has friends over, and horseplay ensues - wresteling, pillow fighting, Buddy will posture himself between my daughter and the other person (usually only males)looking at the other person -- like he's on alert or something...at attention, hard to describe, all I know is it makes me nervous and gives me a great excuse not to have boys in the house unless I am there, when Buddy seems to much more relaxed. The incident I spoke of with my Dad, Buddy fractured this mans arm holding him down....don't feel bad, this intruder had a knife in the same hand conected to the same arm that ended up in his mouth...I don't, and I thank God for this dog every day.

Does your research show any conclusive data on dogs that bond very well with people are better suited to be protectors?

No, about 4% total of the dogs met the criteria that I posted about.
30ish percentcent were just badly reported and wouldn't even count as a defensive reaction by the involved dog.

If you'll PM me with the facts incident that you have described, I can view the Police report ( I'd think one would have been filed by what you described, of course ).
How badly was the dog injured fighting a man armed with a knife? Most dogs take significant injuries in those cases.

How to PM? I'm new to the board, I will ask my Dad about how to get a report for your research, they are retired in NC now, this was approximately 5 years ago, Buddy is 8 now.

There was not a fight persay the way my Dad describes it, My Dad stood behind a counter, Buddy used to lay at his feet under the counter, the man came to the counter and threatened with a knife, sticking hand across the counter, he never saw the dog, Buddy came from underneath locking onto the arm as he came over the counter and pulling the man to the floor as he jumped over the counter, sort of like when a pit jumps up for a spring pole toy....not so much of a struggle more of a shock and knock down, he didn't let go until my Dad was in control the way it was described to me.

Click "my home" to PM.
I'll need the date of conviction of the attacker to document it via public records.
Thanks, if it was written up well in the police report and then the court proceeding, who knows, it might end up in my book!

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Click "my home" to PM.

Or just click on the person's name in a thread and then click to send a PM at the bottom left side of the screen.