Re: gsd dominant color
[Re: Jeannette Polowski ]
#88070 - 12/04/2005 04:22 PM |
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I'm sure this has been covered somewhere, but I couldn't find it
Has there been any behavior related traits associated with colors?
I raised a couple of litters of Cockers as a kid and found that all of the red colored dogs were extremely sneaky biters, had very nasty dispositions in general, and would only respond positively to one person in the home that they resided in---and even then, they could turn on the "Alpha" in the house...the other pups were blondes and honey colored and every one of them had sweet dispositions and were very soft...I've heard of the "rage" gene that some think is related to the red coloration but I'm not convinced...
anyone know for sure and if it applies to all dogs or just a few breeds?
btw, thanks Ed for a great site and thanks Cindy for the dialog.
Brenna
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Re: gsd dominant color
[Re: Mike Morrison ]
#88071 - 12/04/2005 04:46 PM |
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This is just speculation, but I'd be willing to bet that your observations are a combination of coincidence and "self fulfilling prophesy". It's certainly possible that temperamental traits could be linked with color but most likely, the gene pool hasn't been isolated enough to see any real correlation between the two traits. IF the "rage gene" is always found in dogs of a certain color, that's a shame. That's what happens when animals are bread based on frivolous color preferences instead of being bread based characteristics that matter like working ability, temperament, drives, structural soundness, etc.
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Re: gsd dominant color
[Re: Mike Morrison ]
#88072 - 12/04/2005 06:00 PM |
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Temple Grandin, author of 'Animals in Translation' has research that links hair color and whorls to behavioral tendencies. Specifically, what they found is that during fetal development, the brain forms at the same time as the nerves and hair. Additionally, the molecular precursor for pigmentation also supplies the raw material for cells that later form the brain and nervous system. Roughly speaking, more pigmentation means a better developed nervous system. It's perhaps one of the better explanations I've seen of why the old-time breeders selected against white Shepherds and for rich pigmentation in their dogs.
http://www.grandin.com/references/horse.genetics.html
http://www.grandin.com/welfare/genetics.animal.welfare.html
(scroll down to the section on depigmentation patterns)
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Re: gsd dominant color
[Re: Charlie Snyder ]
#88073 - 12/04/2005 06:24 PM |
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Ryan,
Is it really necessary to inject your smug remarks in response to a valid question, especially to a bran new member? Manners?
How about: Good question Mike. Welcome to Leerburg!!!!
“The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams” |
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Re: gsd dominant color
[Re: Mike Morrison ]
#88074 - 12/04/2005 06:38 PM |
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In the 1400's Gervase Markham wrote an opinion on the water dogs color that black is the best and hardest, liver hued swiftest in swimming, and the spotted, quickest in scent.
According to Blanche Saunders, she felt color did effect behavior, but first dominant color in a breed had to be indentified to know what the color influence would be. In one of her books she mentioned that in cattle breeding, it was found that black was dominant over red. In horse breeding, bay dominates black. In poodles black is the strong color, but in Dachsunds red is stronger than black and tan; Boxers, brindle over fawn. She also felt that a dog who was for example brown also carried colors from inherited genes which also affected his temp. and what he would pass on to his progeny.
There's an old English rhyme about horses: "One white foot-buy him, Two white feet-try him, Three white feet-look well about him, Four white feet-go without him"
Hair Color Genetics. This is a fairly complex concept that comes from some observation and from conjecture. Melanin is what colors the hair... and behaviorist surmise: (Bonnie Beaver, 102)
“Epinephrine has the same metabolic pathway as the pigment melanin, and the same precursor is need for synthesis of both. Genetic manipulation of coat color could then be useful for breeding in or out certain behavioral characteristics such as fear and aggression.”
Helmut Hemmer, Domestication
“The coat color of a mammal is related to the basic level of its activity, its reaction intensity and its environmental appreciation. The reason for this is probably to be found in the fact that up to a certain stage the pigments that determine color - the melanins - and the catcholamine group of neurotransmitters that are to a large extent the basis of the information processing system share a common biochemical synthesis pathway. Selection of certain coat colors can produce a behavioral change with a corresponding change in the stress system either towards attenuated behavior and increased tolerance or in the opposite direction. Combinations of the alleles of single color genes that deviate from the corresponding wild-type increase or alter their effect on behavior. It follows that the strategy of selecting and combining certain coat color types can produce direct effects on domestication.”
There's more about various mammals on color and behavior genetics.
http://www.akerrsbengals.com/temperament.htm
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Re: gsd dominant color
[Re: Charlie Snyder ]
#88075 - 12/04/2005 06:46 PM |
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great link Charlie, gives some creedence to white GSDs being nerve bags
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Re: gsd dominant color
[Re: Dennis Jones ]
#88076 - 12/04/2005 07:47 PM |
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I have been noticing this for some time. Nice to see research backing it up. The only cocker we have had trouble with was a red one. He would and did bite us. The rest were no big deal. I also notice that the lighter color Goldens can be aggressive and real nervy. My experience with them as a kid was never like that. They were the color of a Irish setter.
We are a large kennel and have a lot of dogs going in and out. In the beginning I thought it was coincedence though.
I am smarter than my dog, your just not. |
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Re: gsd dominant color
[Re: jeff oehlsen ]
#88077 - 12/04/2005 09:40 PM |
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In the red beagles of litters I bred I noticed no difference in any traits except that if there were 2 or more red pups in a litter they always seemed to hang out together. I have bred good and bad dogs of all colors in beagles except lemon and white. Never had enough Patch hounds to do that with
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Re: gsd dominant color
[Re: Charlie Snyder ]
#88078 - 12/04/2005 11:15 PM |
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Charlie, interesting articles. I've always felt, in working terriers anyway, that the finer boned dogs almost always have higher strung temperments. My scrawny little JRT sure fits the bill.
Barbra
Your quoting Blaunche Saunders?!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> My very first dog training book, when I was a kid, was written by Blaunche Saunders, and I'm old! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I still have it along with a couple of her books. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks |
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Re: gsd dominant color
[Re: Bob Scott ]
#88079 - 12/04/2005 11:41 PM |
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Yeah, I have to read the old stuff along with the new to catch up to where everyone else is at <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Some of her training methods made my eyes pop out, but some are pretty good. I've used one of her books to train my dogs for the CD and CDX. Modifying some of the abusive stuff of course <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> She is one AKC lady who respected the working qualities of dog breeds.
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