Just get a Mal and quit struggling with this GSD idea. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Kristine, when asking a question like yours. You will get a wide variety of opinion based on bias and prefences of others. If you want to try BR with a GSD go right ahead but you will have to be very selective in your choice. Kristine the pup in the videos below has a pedigree is similar to what I recommended he is line-bred 4-4 Fado vom Karthago and has Troll von haus Milinda,Natz v Tegelhous ,Orry von haus Antverpa, Aly v. Vordersteinwald and Troll von der bosen Nachbarschaft. There's a kennel in France that breed GSD that compete in French Ring and the bloodlines are similar.

For Jeff, watch these 2 videos and imagine if Sammy Blondin and her husband would have started this pup on leg bites.
16 week old and same GSD pup at 9 months at 9 months

Well, thats nice to watch, but then why did they sell the little demon? I am pretty sure that one was on the sale block not to long ago. I am sure they are not just getting rid of dogs for no reason. However, if you watch the second video, what is he looking at, off to the left??? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> I was pretty sure the camera and the decoy came from the right.

The screaming and the drive to get there, sure that looked good, but once he got there......... Sorry not slamming, I would take the dog, just being realistic. Just ask my dogs! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

The french gentleman, are you speaking of Daniel Berneuil? He has a kennel I tried to do the link thing, but I can't figure it out. The kennel name is Le Val des Hurlevents. We had him as a judge at one of our trials a while ago. Very nice person.

The kennels website is http://www.bergerallemandhurlevent.com/indexgb.htm

Kristine, I don't think you have anything to lose to try. It's not like there are that many trials anyway. It gives you a goal to train for something really interesting and fun. I have less of a chance than you, good luck with it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Kristen,
The problem with Belgian Ring in the US is that IMO from watching a few whole heartedly attempts be made to bring it here I'd have to say it' just isn't working. Bob Dixon and gang have been the most successful and they have done an outstanding job, but BR is about 30yrs to late. BR here will not, and again IMO, make any significant growth gains much more than what it is now. I dabbled around with Belgian ring a little bit as far as training for it goes, and decided for a few reasons to leave it alone, but one big reason is that there just doesn't seem to be alot of intrest. Which means your trials will always be just small 4-5dog trials if that. I have seen in NVBK-America where there really is only one dog competing but other dogs not trained for trial were put in to have the required number of dogs, and then pulled for "injury" once they got on the field. It would be nice to see it grow, I'd love to be able to attend some real trials around my area or with a little travel, but I don't see it primarily because there is no significant intrest, no one is talking about it.
~CHRIS DUHON

My dog has done quite a bit of muzzle work on upper body lately, but that was after he'd had a LOT of work on leg bites and suit. We'd already progressed to adding defense to him after he'd turned 2 yrs old, and did muzzle work so the trainer could get into his face and into his space without getting bit during civil work. But we also wanted to teach him how to win the fight while wearing the muzzle, so we used the muzzle with the opening in the front while the trainer wore a vest with a bite bar across the chest - teaching him to bite and hold the bite bar on the vest. This taught him to target the chest while wearing the muzzle (we haven't extensively tested or given him chances to do this, but he doesn't seem to target the chest w/o a muzzle). Afterward, we shifted back to the regular "ringsport" style muzzle with the metal bar - the trainer wore a padded vest and taught the dog that if he hits hard enough into the trainer's chest, he wins the fight. The trainer has to be careful though, they can get hurt here (it could easily break ribs w/o padding) and a catcher's mask might be a good idea as the muzzle could hit and slide into the face- ouch!

I'm not sure if it is true, but I have heard that this sort of training is more popular in France/Belgium where protection dogs may have to be muzzled (?)

--Alan...

Chris,

I think you are right about why it is SO difficult to do something like BR and NVBK here. Even if someone has all of the necessary skills, it is incredibly difficult to train in a vacuum. Having a community of people who are doing it around you not only makes it so much easier for people to stay motivated and reach their training goals but it also allows you access to new tools and techniques to improve your training - in the business world the popularity would create a network externality.

French Ring seems to be be building some traction but I think there's a big difference between being a decoy and being a trainer who can get a dog to a FR III title. A very successful Schutzhund trainer who I respect once said something like "Hell, we don't even really understand how to do Schutzhund in this country. How can we do ringsports?"

--Alan...

 Quote:

Kristen,
The problem with Belgian Ring in the US is that IMO from watching a few whole heartedly attempts be made to bring it here I'd have to say it' just isn't working. Bob Dixon and gang have been the most successful and they have done an outstanding job, but BR is about 30yrs to late. BR here will not, and again IMO, make any significant growth gains much more than what it is now.
~CHRIS DUHON

The reasons, as i see it why BR is so difficult to start in a new region are:

- In comparison to the succesrate off SChz training the BR training has an enormous wash-out. Less than 1 out off 10 dogs selected and bred for the trainingprogram are good enough to go to trail. You need a superdog to do so, whereas in Schz you can get a dog that isn't that super titled in schz 3 without to much trouble

- It takes 18 months to prepare a schz dog and 3 years a Ringdog. On top of that it is almost impossible to get your first dog to competition. So you'r 5 years down the road befor you can begin thinking competition. In a society that is focussed on fast results this is inn't in favor of BR.

- It is difficult to find some crazy b@st@rts to train a dog under those conditions without a garantee off succes

Greetings

Johan

PS i'm on off those crazy ....