Originally posted by Randall Hoadley:
I have followed this post for the last couple of days.

Are we now calling prey drive an emotion of a dog? Maybe I lost something in the interpretation. I for one feed my dogs live food. I can not remember them once barking when they either chased it or caught it or the time it ran behind the plywood. They just went after it until they caught the food.

My dog barks for a tennis ball like most dogs. For me, it is not the same drive or behaviour or emotion as when they chase prey animals. It is definately not with the same intensity as chasing prey. And yes, if I restrain my dogs from their prey they also bark, but this is more social than their prey drive overriding to flush out the food or frustration.

Just 2 cents I do not understand how it is more social than thier prey drive overriding to flush out the food or fustration? I am lost on this one.....?

There have been past comments about dogs barking more convincing in the blind. I feel that this is a genetic issue, as well as a training one.

If you have a dog that was not schooled in aggression training and his/her attitude is not in that mode, then it would be pretty hard not to have a yap yap dog in the blind. Sometimes dogs that are schooled in aggression, will fall into a prey type yap bark after a period of time, but the intial barks will be broken and deep. If you start some dogs in prey, and then teach the hold and bark in prey, (for the most part) then your barking will be a light bark with the yap that most of us do not want. At best you will have your work cut out for you bringing a stronger bark, if the dog is not working in other drives other then prey during its normal protection. So in other words if the dog looks at the sleeve like a big ball, and the helper just moves that ball, and it is a high prey dog, then most likley the bark will be a yap yap high pitched bark. I have also found that dogs that are worked in prey for the most part, the barking by the time they are 5 or when they get to the blind the barking starts to dis-appear or you get less and less barks after the helper does not move after the first few barks.

Saying that dogs dont bark in prey is interesting, but it doesnt hold water.Prey drive is just that, its a drive, its not an action.The drive is what motivates the action the dog chooses that will most likely lead to success. What your saying is just like saying a person cant be hungry and eat at the same time.I can agree to disagree but I dont have to grasp for straws to do it.

Steve,

No I did not have to teach them how to catch the prey, they just did it. It must be natural to chase prey. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

MTR wrote:

I do not understand how it is more social than thier prey drive overriding to flush out the food or fustration? I am lost on this one.....?


When I hold my dogs and make them bark for their food bowls or tennis ball, it has nothing to do with prey. They bark as a social behaviour. It is the same as if I had told them to sit for their food. It is still social, b/c animals do not sit for prey they chase and try to eat prey.

If I hold my dog back off his food, the frustration is also with me for not letting him go, social. Behind a fence barking, this can be defense, social or aggresion. I do not know b/c I am not there to see why or how that dog barks. If he is barking just b/c he wants the cat, then there will be some anxiety, whether it is b/c he wants it or just b/c he is mouthy at the cat. Most of the time, my dogs will bark until they chase, here they are quiet, and get to the cat, then the cat puffs up and the dogs leave. Apparently in those situations at the end they were in defense and we just thought they barked in prey drive.

Hold and Bark - Dogs yip yip for the sleeve to me is no different than barking for the ball. It still is not prey drive but merely asking for the sleeve, its toy, like social. When my dogs are in prey, I can pick them up by the flanks and they will not stop staring at the prey animals. This includes my weak dogs. Next time he yips, pick him by the flanks and see if they come with you or stay and fight.

We all know that no animal is in prey or defense 100% of the time. Even when they yip, there could be nervousness because the prey will not move. If they are confident, then they demand the prey to move, ie aggression.

And besides, prey is stimulated by movement, not a person standing still in the blind. But as with anything, do it enough times and any dog becomes accustomed to it and it is just a behavour after a thousand times and not just a drive.

I hope that helps.

Originally posted by Randall Hoadley:
Steve,

When I hold my dogs and make them bark for their food bowls or tennis ball, it has nothing to do with prey. They bark as a social behaviour. It is the same as if I had told them to sit for their food. It is still social, b/c animals do not sit for prey they chase and try to eat prey.

If I hold my dog back off his food, the frustration is also with me for not letting him go, social. I do not agree with this. If a dog is barking and his barking is towards the prey, then this would come from the fustration of being held, yes, but it would be the prey drive boiling over; unless the dog turned and looked at you and barked, then perhaps this could be considered social to a small degree (hey let me go, I want it But still prey would be incorperated into this situation, more so then social). I do agree that in some dogs thier may be some anxiety associated with barking for whatever reason, but to say a dog does not bark for prey is not correct.

Like I said earlier, prey drive is just that, its a drive not an action. It DRIVES the action. It is the force or motor behind the action. To imply that the only action that prey drive can drive is running, or actively staring doesnt make any sense. Then to go on and say that barking is exclusive to defense,social behavior,anxiety,stress,bad nerves,or a trained response is equaly as leaky. Once again I can agree to disagree but I dont need any straw or a scared mouse to prove it.

Since I do not believe that prey is an emotion I also can agree to disagree. And I do not need a scared mouse to see that either.

Anyone of you care to offer your definition of a "drive" (not prey specifically - just what is a drive, what does that term mean)?