Quote:

.......If you remove him from a class setting, how will you get him to ignore other dogs? ........

Good point, Barbara.

I think the idea is to remove him from "that* setting. Learning to focus and learning to ignore other dogs are gradual; I don't believe they happen in a sink-or-swim atmosphere such as a room filled with off-lead dogs, and (I quote the O.P) "whose owners are also not very serious."

To address the questions about what others replying on the thread would've done instead of allowing the trainer to alpha-roll and slap the dog in the face, I agree wholeheartedly with this post:

"I'd just get the dog out of the environment and give him a chance to start over."

Judy's description, in part, of "They jump on the owners, they growl at each other, there has never been even one 30-second timeframe in which any of the other dogs will sit and stay when told" is not of a place where a dog who is still in the intructional phase, maybe almost ready for low-level distraction, learns basic OB or focus or socialization.

I think Judy's on track, though, and I second your salute, Barbara:
"Good luck Judy <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. You'll get Gunner where you want him to be eventually <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />."

I won't be removing him from a group class setting, I'm removing him from that one. Before the snarl incident, I began to have misgivings about the class, mostly the lack of seriousness of the owners. After I started the thread I realized, the level of distractions was just too high for him. So the combo of both idiot owners and high distractions made for an almost worthless hour spent.

Last week (and before my thread) I shared my concerns with the trainer and told her I didn't think that class was for me. She directed me to another small group of serious owners. It's 2 other dogs whose owners care more about the outcome than the conversation and this sounds like something I'll try. But, I'm only going to that group if they are on leash/long lines or are in some other way a good fit for my dog.

I don't agree that the trainer is as bad as some of you believe she is. It's nice to see people on the board concerned for my dog or anyone elses other than their own.

FYI, I have a deserved reputation among family and friends for being worse than a mother bear where my children are concerned. He's a precious family member and I go to outrageous lengths to protect him. So much so that I am often defending myself:

Why am I carrying this or that weapon?
Why, since I have an electric fence and we live in a zero crime area, won't I leave him on my front lawn alone?
I put an orange safety vest and collar on him when we go out at dusk...I live in a neighborhood with very few cars passing so people think I'm crazy to worry. Too many examples to list here but you get the point.

So, he has a fierce protector in me and I won't let anyone hurt him <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. Thanks all for your input. If it should happen again (I don't plan on this), I will be better suited to handle it thanks to all of you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> .