Quote:

Diana
Since there is so much information available on Rage Syndrome, so much so that this breed specific behavior has been given it’s own name, I guess that there must have been more than a couple of ESS that have displayed this behavior. By the way, this rage is usually directed towards their owners.
Regards
Scott

Its own ESS name?! Along with "Cocker Rage" and "Rage Syndrome in Greater Swiss Mountains" and "Lahsa Apso Rage" and "JRT Rage Syndrome" -- every one of which -- when the research says it exists --- is described as rare or very rare. One posited a less-than-1% probability of a dog of any of these breeds actually having it.

There are many canine disorders and characteristics that are named and have information available; that doesn't mean that "most" of a breed have them. (QUOTE: "most ESS suffer from this condition" is very different from "more than a couple." These are both your statements.)

Can you post any links at all to authoritative web articles, or recommend a book? Every single link posted here by me and by every other poster disagrees with your statements that such a disorder afflicts most of a breed.... ANY breed, including the ESS.

The website pointed out by Diana states that there are probably 20 different forms of aggression and the term "Rage Aggression" should be dropped from our vocabulary. Further, that aggressive dogs should be evaluated by board certified veterinary behaviorists and other equally qualified professionals. For me, enough said.

As Scott said - the original post was about a puppy with prey drive having problems because of the way the owner lived with her dogs. This pup does not HAVE RAGE SYNDROM. Sorry but its foolish to suggest it. Pulling another dog by the tail IS NOT AGGRESSION.

I suggest the original poster read the article I wrote titled THE GROUND WORK TO BECOMING YOUR PUPPIES PAC LEADER. You will see why its a VERY BAD IDEA to allow pups to be around other dogs. We would not do this in our home and suggest you keep these dogs separated until the pup is 7 to 9 months old

Just to be clear, I only posted what I did about Rage because Rage was brought up previously to my post and I wanted to dispel incorrect info. I wished to ensure the OP would be clear on what really is Rage and what really is a normal pup, which she more than likely has. She should treat the pup as a normal pup and read about Rage; science still isn't sure about the syndrome but it has happened before and it doesn't hurt to know about it, especially to know what is NOT Rage. I definitely do not believe this pup has Rage and I definitely believe she should file all Rage info to the back burner and treat the pup as one would any high drive, working-bred pup.

Dee Dee, in commenting to your original post, if you truly do have a proper field bred Springer, then he will be a high drive prey driven dog. Lots of fun, very clever, but you will find he will be happier about 100 yards away from you in the company of his nose <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It is prey/play drive in dragging around your Pap, you can not let this behavior continue or your Paps life will be misery, as your Springer will continue to do this.

Keep them seperated and during a supervised session, keep a long lead on him and use a prong collar. When he starts to get too rough or play inappropiately with the Pap then give him a quick pop with your command (ie: Leave!) and then leave it at that. Only reinforce with the inappropiate behavior, you certainly don't want him to be put off companionship with the other dog altogether.

On another note, I know you stated you didn't want to neuter him, but I think after 18 months you'll probably want to consider it.

I had a field bred Springer, lots of energy! He is from the UK where this 'Rage Syndrome' doesn't exist. Must be a condition in the show dog lines, as the Springer working dog people are just as fussy as the GSD folks!

Wow....
I can't believe how far off line this thread went...
Someone comes on here to post that she can't get her puppy to stop a behaviour (8 week puppy, keep that in mind), and then all of a sudden someone suggest he has some sort of rage syndrome.
You've probably scared the girl off!

She never said that the pup never listens to NO, she said that he does listen, but will resume doing the unappropriate behaviour...to me, it just sounds like he hasn't quite grasped the meaning of the word yet. This is an 8 week old puppy....and I would be more apt to believe that her little guy just needs re-enforcement on what NO means. I think we all remember that with a pup the NO command would be enough to stop them...usually, but if they were doing something especiallly amusing, it would take more than just a NO to bring them back in line. Like I said, it almost sounds to me like he just doesn't totally understand the meaning of NO yet and because playing with the pap's tail is so much fun, he's not responding to the command, either because he's not understanding the command or he's chosing to ignore her...both can be solved with training.
Dee Dee, I hope that you follow the advice given here about training before you start to think your pup has some sort of disorder.

 Quote:

Wow....
......Dee Dee, I hope that you follow the advice given here about training before you start to think your pup has some sort of disorder.

I think if Dee Dee goes back and reads the interjections by Ed Frawley, she'll see that training and separation are the best routes. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Just to clarify my post, I do not believe the puppy has "rage syndrome" and that is why I noted that this particular source thought that the term should be dropped from our vocabulary. Further, trying to diagnosis a behavioral problem online is sometimes not the best course.

Agreed. Everything derailed when Rage was mentioned in the third post to this thread.

On another note, separation will be especially useful if the springer will be a competition dog. Your pup needs to focus 100% on you, DeeDee, for all the good and fun in its life, not on the papillon!

The pap's tail will thank you for it!

WOW <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />with lots of laughing <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />. I have been a member here for a while-I became a lerker after I lost my GSD, and have seen posts derail, but never thought it would be one of mine. I apologize for not updating sooner. Thanks to Ed's articles and your post, we have had no tail pulling for two days now. In regards to "Rage" I am still on the fence and definately not worried that my boy has it or is going to get it, and will train the ESS as I did my GSD, and the way you would any other high prey driven dog. For those who PM'd me I will get back you to individually, hopefully tomorrow. Thanks again everyone for your comments, and the links on "rage" and I will keep you updated! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />