Ok, I have done research on the RAW diet and have decided to try it when I bring my puppy home in January. I found a holistic animal store about 20 minutes away from me. They carry some of the suppliments Ed recommends (can't find the probiotics or the super c 2000). The owners were also recommending I look into the Natures Variety. Might not be bad as I get used to feeding raw but does anyone have any experience with this line? What about Buckaroo Beef -Solid Gold? ANy and all help will be appreciated.

I currently pay about $45-48 for a 40lb bag of dog food(Nutro)and that normally lasts about 1 month for my two dogs(13 month old and a 13 week old) Considering how much I spend for dog food a month I plan on spending just a bit more(especially if it only costs $60-$80 a month) and going to natural(raw diet). There are always sales on meat at the local grocery store and I would only feed my dogs meat that I would eat.

 Quote: Jamie Fraser

i've never heard of skinning them, but my grandmother was in a hurry one christmas and shaved (or sheared, whatever) the feathers off instead. when it cooked, the flesh forced what was left of the feathers out until the whole thing looked like a steaming porcupine.

Omg, Jamie you'll be happy to know I almost exploded with a mouthful of coffee all over my keyboard when I read that! That's too funny, your grandmother sounds like an imaginative lady... lol

From my experience, the two best cost-saving tips for feeding raw are: (1) buy from a meat wholesale place instead of retail (yellow pages should help with that) and (2) make friends with hunters and butchers.

Buying the meat wholesale alone cut down the cost to about 2$ a day to feed two adult GSD (60 lbs. & 95 lbs.). Costs go down even more once you start getting free food from hunters & butchers. My dogs have been eating for free for the past few months thanks to all the game meats packed in my freezers!! (well I suppose you could add the electrical cost of keeping all the freezers going...)

Chicken is the most expensive thing that I feed to my dogs after lamb and they don't get it very often. Pork riblets are cheap here (purchased in bulk), maybe you can try that instead of chicken? Very meaty, cheap, soft bones (I smashed them a few times with a mallet for my puppy until he could crunch them up himself) and the dogs love them.

Also try to spread the word around with your meat suppliers about your dogs. I had great luck recently; the owner of the meat wholesale place I buy from heard of my dogs and the whole raw-feeding thing.
I stopped by the place one day to pick up an order and the man offered me a whole box full of moose meat! It was all nicely packaged and wrapped up in meal-size portions too.

He hunts every fall and he'd killed a large moose recently. Apparently there are just so many moose burgers a guy can eat before he starts looking for people to take the extra meat off his hands

Don't under estimate the power of the word of mouth. Talk to every person you can find involved in meat and you might be surprised with the goodies that come your way!

Good luck making the switch... just be patient, it gets much easier and cheaper the longer you stick with it.

 Quote: KatherineDurst

Ok, I have done research on the RAW diet and have decided to try it when I bring my puppy home in January. I found a holistic animal store about 20 minutes away from me. They carry some of the suppliments Ed recommends (can't find the probiotics or the super c 2000). The owners were also recommending I look into the Natures Variety. Might not be bad as I get used to feeding raw but does anyone have any experience with this line? What about Buckaroo Beef -Solid Gold? ANy and all help will be appreciated.

Both brands addressed here:
http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=134&Number=122586&Searchpage=1&Main=13436&Words=%26quot%3Bbuckaroo%26quot%3B&topic=0&Search=true#Post122586

I know you didn't ask this, but no matter what you settle on, I strongly recommend adding salmon oil.
http://www.leerburg.com/47.htm

Many premium foods now include Omega 3s in the form of flax and other vegetable sources. However, recent Tufts research (2005) has shown that dogs do not have the ability that humans do to convert short-chain Omega 3s into the highly beneficial long-chain EFAs like DHA and EPA. Humans can convert at a rate of about 10%, but dogs cannot.

There are so many short- and long-term benefits to Omega 3 EFAs from marine sources that I would not be able to list them all, but a few are enhancement of skin and coat health and anti-inflammation action (and inflammation is a major factor in OA and other joint disorders, allergies, coronary heart disease, and much more).

Dogs need Vitamin E with oil supplements.

JMO.

Oh and also, I don't think that plucking or skinning is necessary when feeding whole prey. (What a hassle that must be!!)

I have, on several occasions, killed rabbits and fed them whole to my dogs. I breed rabbits and obviously there's NO way I could kill one of my own pets. I can't even feed one of my pet rabbits after its natural death - they all get a nice burial.
I get my "dog food rabbits" from another rabbit breeder (I give her some of my better baby rabbits to add to her breeding stock and in return she gives me the rabbits she doesn't "need" for breeding).

Killing a rabbit is not so horrible. One strong hit to the head with a mallet and it's instant death for them. They don't see it coming and they don't so much as flinch. They all had happy lives with plenty of outdoor access & exercise, so giving them an instant and painless death is something I can live with.

Anyway, the dogs eat everything up; organs, guts, fur and all. They adore it and have no trouble digesting any of it. You can't even see the rabbit's fur in their poop afterwards. Maybe a few hairs here and there in the poop, but otherwise, every other part of the rabbit is completely dissolved.

If you can feed your dogs whole, freshly killed rabbits, it doesn't get any better than that.

(Edit) I wouldn't recommend giving a live rabbit as food for a dog; it would be too agonizing and horrible a death for the poor rabbit. Rabbits are very sensitive and will scream (an extremely loud, high-pitched blood curdling scream!!) when in a lot of pain or fear.
I once had a 5-week-old baby rabbit escape from its cage without my noticing it. My 7-month-old GSD pup grabbed the baby in his mouth and I heard the poor thing start screaming its head off. I yelled at my puppy to drop it and luckily he obeyed right away.
The baby rabbit wasn't hurt at all (now a young adult and thriving), just terrified.
The moral? Do the prey animal a favor and kill it yourself before giving it to your dog

I don't think I would allow my dogs 'live prey' or food that wasn't prepared prior to feeding the dogs, cleaned of unwanted bacteria and disease, and properly prepared.
Because then I think I'd have a problem on my hands(e.g. killing other animals, giving chase to rabbits, squirrels, cats even.) JMHO, but I'd rather not risk that.

Keleah: what do you mean by "cleaned of unwanted bacteria and disease and properly prepared"?

And same reason I don't feed live rabbits to my dogs (besides it being cruel for the rabbit). I actually use my shepherds to protect my rabbits when they're outside during the day. My puppy is still too young and crazy, but I will place my older female inside the exercise pens with the rabbits - consisting of several large dog exercise pens joined together - and she will protect them from roaming predators (mostly cats & birds of prey, but she once stood her ground against 3 large stray dogs before I could chase them away with a stick).
She'd never kill a rabbit anyway, even if starving; as for my puppy, he certainly would given the chance but I wouldn't allow that, as I will eventually want him to take over as rabbit protector!

They don't associate a dead rabbit (even whole, still warm with the fur and all) with chasing and killing one. As I said, my female spends hours every day in contact with the rabbits (unsupervised) and is very protective of them. She happily lets the baby rabbits jump and crawl all over her with their sharp little nails and she never hurts them. Yet she readily eats freshly killed rabbits that I offer her.

Thank you Connie-I have already purchased the Salmon Oil in the pump just didn't mention it. I am looking forward to doing the RAW thing with my pup. I'm just going to have to talk to my meat counter guys at the store and see if they will throw me a bone and help me out. I have a small packet of the buckaroo beef - I may try to take it back or just use it as training treats in small pieces until its gone. I am a little nervous about doing this diet but I have researched and copied meal ideas and I think with the help of this board we'll be ok. Only two more weeks till puppy comes home!

Well a freshly killed rabbit, whether it is wild or hand raised, could be carrying diseases(perhaps not). Hence having the freshly killed rabbit cooled and cut up(don't have to skin it, I guess), but field dress it at the very least-take out certain organs that, say, you wouldn't eat... such as the galbladder, intestines, etc. Like I said, it's just my opinion and I'm sure your dogs love it and they look great(no offense to what you're doing, if it's working for you and your dogs eat it, that's great!). It's just nothing I would do, that's all.

Ok, I was just wondering what you meant by that and wasn't critisizing your methods or anything

I definitely take those precautions with larger prey (like game meats) and make sure that the intestines were removed as soon as the animal was killed.

Since these rabbits are all hand-raised I'm not too worried... especially since I feed them to the dogs imeediately after killing them. But you could be onto something. I'll look into it.