Re: PLEASE help me save my dog! 4 fem 3 sis fight
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#120110 - 12/07/2006 07:42 PM |
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Which I don't think means that two cannot have a pack mentality. I think maybe it means that three always do.
But that means "a dog pack," I think.
A pack of humans with their one or two dogs would be a pack to me, but it wouldn't be a *dog pack.*
That's a good article for the O.P. The concerns it addresses are not simply the initial intro.
http://www.leerburg.com/introducingdogs.htm
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Re: PLEASE help me save my dog! 4 fem 3 sis fight
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#120118 - 12/07/2006 08:17 PM |
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Here's a little from
http://www.leerburg.com/introducingdogs.htm
QUOTE: In addition the human pack leader shows his dog or dogs that he will protect them FROM OTHER DOGS. This is very important issue that the average dog owner doesn’t realize, but I guarantee you your dog does. ...
Our goal in introducing a new dog into a family which already has other dogs comes down to "bringing another member into the family pack in a manner that is seamless and nonviolent". .....
... The most important part of this process is to get and use dog crates. We have a dog crate for every dog in the house. Just because your current dogs don’t use crates is not a good enough reason to not use them in this process. ..... END QUOTE
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Re: PLEASE help me save my dog! 4 fem 3 sis fight
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#120119 - 12/07/2006 08:34 PM |
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I use crates with my pack and my whole family is involved in training. I got kennels in the back yard, when I introduced a new dog they stayed seperated. I feed them seperatley in differnt rooms/crates and only treat them when they sit quitely together. Three of us go bike riding together one of the dogs has bad hips. At night they sleep in a puppy pile on the deck until I bring them in for the night in there designated places. This is a continous job. So far knock on wood the ranking issues never got past the growl stage which I havn't heard in a long time. They are territorial which is fine with me, I've worked with that. I get a nice display at the fence then I recall them. They point is I spent alot of time researching and training at home and at the dog club to make this work. If you can't do that, for the sake of your puppers and the saftey of those around you, look to the ASPCA or other rescues to rehome these guys.
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Re: PLEASE help me save my dog! 4 fem 3 sis fight
[Re: Amber Morgan ]
#120121 - 12/07/2006 09:10 PM |
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Yikes! Sorry, didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. Personally, I believe that it takes 3 or more animals to make a group, which is what a pack is. 2 is a couple...
Oh, heavens, you didn't ruffle my feathers! I just wanted to express my difference of opinion. 3 Dogs is a pack.... Yes, but Ed also says in that article: "The average pet owner does not realize how the addition of a second or third dog into their home will trigger a genetic pack drive or RANK DRIVE response in their best friend."
And, there's a long article with questions/answers about how it's really, really bad to have two pups from the same litter: http://www.leerburg.com/2dogs.htm
Even though these dogs are grown, since three of them are littermates, I'll bet they had all the problems in their upbringing that Ed talks about. I'm also guessing those problems don't just go away with age. In fact, in this case I'd venture to say they're so deeply ingrained it's going to be extremely difficult to control them. Crates or other separation is a must, but I think the dogs will have to be watched like hawks for the rest of their lives any time they are together. And frankly, how much fun is that going to be for the owner - or the dogs?
Peace!
Parek |
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Re: PLEASE help me save my dog! 4 fem 3 sis fight
[Re: AnitaGard ]
#120129 - 12/08/2006 12:28 AM |
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Probably getting them all spayed will help a good deal. Getting all those hormones out of the picture can make a world of difference.
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Re: PLEASE help me save my dog! 4 fem 3 sis fight
[Re: Becky Shilling ]
#120139 - 12/08/2006 05:29 AM |
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Probably getting them all spayed will help a good deal. Getting all those hormones out of the picture can make a world of difference.
Possibly, but no guarantee. My 2 sniping females were both spayed. And they weren't raised together.
Parek |
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Re: PLEASE help me save my dog! 4 fem 3 sis fight
[Re: AnitaGard ]
#120144 - 12/08/2006 07:32 AM |
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In many documented cases, getting females spayed can actually INCREASE aggression. Not that spaying isn't a good idea for other reasons. Personally, I don't think much else will work besides seperation and training. Good old-fashioned getting-your-hands-dirty!!
Carbon |
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Re: PLEASE help me save my dog! 4 fem 3 sis fight
[Re: Amber Morgan ]
#120169 - 12/08/2006 11:01 AM |
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Amber, pack drive between two canine housemates is not just gender related...
All human semantics between "pair" & "pack" aside, adding a second dog to your home creates instant rank dynamics (sometimes subtle, other times overt) -- My intact male Borzoi was 7 years old when I got my female Akita puppy & he went from "omega" to "beta" in our family pack structure the instant she stepped onto our property...
Lazar had never displayed one moment of dominance in his whole life, until Shaka joined our household & then he immediately assumed his rightful premier position over her (he's not aggressive at all, but simply behaves as her "superior") -- Lazar eats first, while Shaka watches from a respectful distance & she vacates his bed whenever he wants to lie on it, typical top-dog scenarios like that in the home...
Also, Lazar used to be passive-submissive to the point of avoidance around other dogs, but not after Shaka's arrival -- Her presence in our pack elevated his status, along with raising his K9 rank & gave him much more self-confidence <:-)
How anyone can live without a dog is beyond me... |
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Re: PLEASE help me save my dog! 4 fem 3 sis fight
[Re: Amber Morgan ]
#120171 - 12/08/2006 11:06 AM |
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Amber, I agree with you here <:-) Spaying will NOT decrease inter-bitch aggression (and if anything, may increase female dominance issues, due to reversing their estrogen-testosterone balance)...
How anyone can live without a dog is beyond me... |
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Re: PLEASE help me save my dog! 4 fem 3 sis fight
[Re: Candi Campbell ]
#120180 - 12/08/2006 11:29 AM |
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I would still recommend spaying all the dogs. They will have to be separated from each other anyway, regardless. It may or may not decrease aggressiveness, but at least it will prevent unwanted litters. (And messy heats).
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