Quote:

Originally posted by Todd E. Gaster:
The reason we are going around in circles is you haven't given any facts. You have given anecdotal evidence. None of which would hold up in court. Your vet has 25 years experience...heck thats good enough for me. I will now buy into everything he says.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Chad S.:
And just to cause a spirited debate, why are people more likely to believe a single source of information (one vet writing a book) over a majority, and more highly qualified, in a given field? And are these the same people who believe in any other conspiracy theory which comes along?

What in the hell are you two talking about?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> There is plenty of documented evidence of this. I'm not going to sit here and quote out of a bunch of books to give you the "facts" that you're looking for. Pick up some books and read them! What do you want me to read them for you and repeat what they say?

Chad, who said anything about "a single source of information" or "one vet writing a book"? If you really would like me to, I will sit down tonight and write you an extensive list of books & resources on the subject, since you seem to believe I'm living in a fantasy world. Sorry to disappoint you guys, but I've done my homework on this one.

And FYI, my dogs go out all the time. To the park, to visit my friends & family who also have animals, to the pet stores, etc. These aren't dogs that stay inside all the time and never come into contact with anything. I prefer to strengthen their immune systems and take the chance of them coming into contact with something. If and when it happens, I'll deal with it. I would prefer to deal with the illness than the potential side effects of the vaccines. That is just my personal opinion.

What in the hell are you two talking about?? I don't know about him, but I am talking about the same thing I have said several times...you have given NO facts...just hearsay.

Why is it when people have their OPINIONS questioned they are so quick to defend and insult?

I used your example of the Great Dane...no evidence, just what the vet said. You yourself said we need to question what the vets say. You yourself said you can't stand it when people just blindly do whatever the vet recommends...then you tell us the reason this Dane dies was the vax because the vet said so.

I have read all the books. Yawn...give me scientific proof.

Melissa,
My comment about single source information was pertaining to your referencing a book, I believe the title was What Vets Don't Tell You About Vaccinces, as well as your belief in your Vet who has been practicing for 25 years. While I do enjoy leisure reading, these sources do not provide scientific evidence for links between the vaccines used to prevent diseases in dogs and cancer. Since I had a few minutes, I decided to do a quick search through the database at the NIH (I believe you can access for yourself by searching for Pub Med in yahoo). No articles appeared showing a causal relationship between these vaccines and cancer. Additionally, every vaccine, and drug for that matter, that is approved for use in animals has had mutagenicity studies conducted on it. All of these are also publicly available. If you want scientific proof that the intra-nasal Bordatella vaccine doesn't cause cancer in dogs you can write to the FDA and request to see all of the data that was submitted to them to verify that this product doesn't cause cancer. And if you don't want to trust the government, you can always trust capatilism. There are several different manufactures of different vaccine preparations for dogs. Do you think for one minute that if they could prove that their competitors product caused a disease that that info wouldn't end up in there advertisement literature?

My point about single source info should have probably been worded as such, Why are some people willing to believe a vast minority of under qualified individuals when it comes to health risk information?

Why? Because I, for one, would rather be safe than sorry. Risking my dogs health & lives is not worth it to me, especially when I already have a dog who has been permanently affected by this. If it happens to one of your animals one day, you'll understand. I sincerely hope and pray that none of you ever have to experience that.

Because I, for one, would rather be safe than sorry. Risking my dogs health & lives is not worth it to me, especially when I already have a dog who has been permanently affected by this. Hmm, just being the devil's advocate again. You have had ONE dog permanently affect by vaccines. (Again, I would love to see the scientific proof of this...maybe it was bad genes to begin with?!?!) Love to know how the rest of the litter is doing. Are they being vaccinated? do they have issues. What about the parents?

Hey, anyone out there ever have a dog die of a disease? I mean lets take Parvo for example...anyones dogs die of Parvo? Because of this one dog dying do you start vaccinating or stop vaccinating because of the disease?

I am curious...since you don't vaccinate, what happens if one of your dogs develops Parvo? Then what do you do? Even if the dog recovers it could be permanently affected by it. Now what?

Just for the record, I believe that a puppy should have it's first Parvo shot & all required rabies shots (only because they are required by law) thereafter. I don't believe in vaccinating for anything else, unless it is absolutely necessary.

Todd, do you know what a Rabies Miasm is? You should since you've read all these books and have so thoroughly researched this stuff. My dog is suffering from a Rabies Miasm, which means that his vital force believes it has rabies. Have any of you ever seen this in real life? It's frightening, to say the least. Essentially, the dog behaves almost as if he is rabid...it affects his mind, in addition to his body. I've spent a fortune over the past year trying to restore him to health. I've been to 5 different vets, 2 allopathic, 2 homeopathic & one that practices both. He started going downhill fast within 2 weeks of his vaccinations. Prior to that he was healthy. I know this was caused by his vaccinations, and none of the vets, even the allopathic ones, have attempted to deny or dispute that.

Thanks, but you didn't answer my question.

I am back to being confused again. So it is ok to vaccinate sometimes??? Isn't a puppies immune system less strong than an adult? It is ok to do it then?

Sorry about your dog, however, what about the rest of the litter? Have they been vaccinated? What about the parents?

Why is it, you can state you have done your homework, and have studied the results, and when someone else mentions they have red it also, you get sarcastic??? Maybe you should go reread your books.

As far as Rabies Miasm, call me heartless call me what you want...if the dog TRULY had this, I would put the dog down. What kind of life could the dog possibly lead? What kind of liabilty do you have, having a dog that for no apparent reason could become aggressive, and then back to normal like nothing happened?

Anyway, I thought you posted twice now you were done with this thread.

Maybe, but not necessarily. A puppy's immune system is not necessarily weaker than an adult dog whose immune system has repeatedly bombarded with vaccines.

Getting sarcastic? I wonder why. Maybe because you, who claims to be against vaccinating (haha), is jumping all over me telling me I have no idea what I'm talking about. I don't think I need to reread the books, maybe you should because from the way you're arguing, it sounds like you might have missed something. You've posted before saying that you are against vaccinations, and now you're in here saying something entirely different. Sorry Todd, but you're either changing your opinion with the wind, or you're arguing with me simply for the sake of argument.

As for my dog and his condition, that's where this top-notch vet comes in. The dog was headed towards euthanasia until this vet entered the picture. Due to a lot of time, money & patience, he appears to be on his way to recovering through the use of homeopathy. This is an extremely intelligent, beautiful dog, who everyone loved (and no he is not American). He did a Jekyll & Hyde transformation after his vaccinations. And you don't need to worry, because I am a responsible dog owner who has control of my dog at all times. He will be put to sleep if and when it is determined that recovery isn't possible. Thankfully he appears to be well on his way to living a decent quality of life.

No, my opinion has never changed. I stated I would play the devil's advocate. I have been using your examples. Do my dogs have vaccines...the ones at the store yes...the ones at home no. The ones who travel to compete, yes.

Do I believe vaccines are the end all be all death of our dogs, NO!

I am still waiting on the answer to the rest of the pups in the litter. I am not convinced it wasn't a genetic defieciency that has caused this problem. The vaccine just brought it to light.

When I contacted the breeder after this happened, she had told me that they have had no reports of problems with the other puppies. I haven't checked in with her in awhile, but last I heard, all seemed to be fine. The parents were also fine...I met them both when I purchased the dog.

Why don't we now declare this topic dead in the water? If you want to argue just for the sake of argument, feel free to PM me and we can continue this ridiculous bantering if wish. I'm pretty sure everyone else is tired of hearing us arguing back and forth.