Quote:

The other issue is that I have been very successful in recommending Canidae to people who adopt from me. If I was trying to convince adopters to use raw food or a more expensive dry food like Innova, Timberwolf, or others they would tell me to go fly a kite. While Canidae might not be the absolute best food, it certainly is a very good food and better than most of the garbage on pet store shelves. I prefer that my dogs and cats get at least this level of food as opposed to my adopters giving up and buying the regular garbage out there.

I think you just answered why I SUCK at placing animals; if someone expressed a "fly a kite" attitude to me about something as important as food, I'd tell them to fly a kite first . Although I'll brag that all the puppies I've placed are in homes heeding my demands, lol! Even family doesn't get away with any crap-no shots, no dog food, no early neutering/spaying (if at all), and proper supplementation. Call me a control freak .

While Canidae is ok, it still has GRAIN. You CANNOT compare grainy kibbles to grain-free kibbles on cost. Timberwolf has 1/2 the bag weight in meat; naturally, it's more expensive than brown rice and barley, etc.

I don't think we missed your point about raw and kibble not being comparable at all; I was totally agreeing with you when it comes to not being able to metabolize high protein in KIBBLE. I was saying (and I think Connie's responses w/rebuttals) that a raw diet high in protein is NOT harmful, because it's USABLE protein, and therefore is not casuing the undue strain on the kidneys. Kibble is a whole different story...

If she's gonna stay on kibble, I'd agree. If it were my dog, the first thing I'd do was yank the SD out of her mouth and go raw, carefully and cautiously. I don't believe man can make anything better for health than nature, and at best, vets are just uneducated on nutrition, and at worst, money hungry and biased. The specialist is a more highly trained vet who probably took the same nutrition class. Vet med school needs to get dog food companies OUT of the classroom; this is clearly a money issue, and IMO, leads to gross malpractice. "Here, take this low-protein crap; it'll be easier on the organs that our regular and high-protein crap has already ruined."

Can you tell I have an issue w/selling dog food in vets' offices?

Sidenote-Jan, was she vaccinated against Lepto?

Yes, she was vaccinated and went into anaphylactic shock about 2+ months later and, in my opinion, as a direct result.

She also has mega-esophagus, so that is another reason why we are a little reluctant to switch her to raw (not to mention the warning about too much protein!). Her kibble must be soaked at least 3-4 hours before she eats (3 times a day), and then mashed with a potato masher until it looks like oatmeal. She eats with her front feet up on a chair and then remains upright for 25 minutes afterwards. I know I could probably grind everything up for her and add some water to make it mushy, but I need to positively know about the low-protein issue first.

Steve/Jenni, If its a complete protein, won't the body metabolize it no matter the source? I may be wrong but I thought the problem with grains is they're not complete. I feed Evo, 75% dry and 25% can. It's soaked in water to where it's pretty much floating. Will that replace the moisture? Thanks.

Jan, I kinda figured as much. Ah, the beauty of vaccination!
How 'bout THK for her? Why not start out with a food that's oatmeal consistency? Force is lower-protein, if that's still a hang-up, and grain free. Just a thought; every animal with an ailment I've ever gotten to try THK has had awesome results. Since it's a premade mix, her delicate system should respond better to the transition than a varied raw diet. Have you thought about this route?

Steve, the problem with grains is they're useless. Look at your own teeth. Flat on the surface toward the back. That's because you, my friend, were designed to eat grains. Now look at your dog's teeth. If you find any flat ones, let me know. I'll call the Star or the Weekly World News.

Dogs are not meant to, nor are they desined, to eat grain. WE may be able to metabolize the protein in grain...WE produce Amylase. THEY do NOT. Yes, I suppose you could supplement with amylase, but why force a food on a species that wasn't meant to eat it? Can't be good, IMO. I strongly suspect grains in the skyrocketing cases of diabetes, Addison's, Cushing's, cancers, and let's not forget our friend obesity. I see zero good in them for dogs, and tons and tons of harm. Only reason to include them is saving money. You (and I don't mean you, proper) could save more if you just gave your dog shredded paper or perhaps sawdust.

Not sure about your question; my gut would tell me NO. It certainly can't hurt, but as far as replacing moisture enough to rule out a possible protein issue....hmmm. I'd say that it probably has more to do with processing and extrusion than actual loss of water. Also, possibly the concentration level, since it's sooo different a form than kibble. The more you change the form of a food, the harder it can be to obtain nutrients from that food-kinda like gently steaming veggies instead of nuking 'em.

THK is an option, even though I wouldn’t mind grinding raw. But my issue is whether she really does need low-protein. If the specialists, whom you assume know best, say she does, but then you read conflicting information, who do you believe? I really do believe you can research enough to find the answer you want, but is it the correct one? I really would like to get her on raw, but…

Jan, THK has a product that has no meat in it at all..you can add the amount yourself in raw and the kind that you think would be best for your dog...just a suggestion.

If no meat, what is the base? If it's obvious, I'm sorry, but I'm having a mind burp - no meat, no grains? Not too much left, is there?

 Quote: Jan Williamson

If no meat, what is the base? If it's obvious, I'm sorry, but I'm having a mind burp - no meat, no grains? Not too much left, is there?

From their site: Alfalfa, sweet potatoes, cabbage, celery, apples, spinach, organic kelp, etc.

QUOTE: A meat-free, grain free diet,designed as a nutritionally balanced base, to create custom meals for any canine ...... Use as a base, mixed with your own choice of meat, fish or other protein. END QUOTE from the THK site.

 Quote: Jan Williamson

THK is an option, even though I wouldn’t mind grinding raw. But my issue is whether she really does need low-protein. If the specialists, whom you assume know best, say she does, but then you read conflicting information, who do you believe? I really do believe you can research enough to find the answer you want, but is it the correct one? I really would like to get her on raw, but…

I would consult with a holistic vet or a vet with a nutrition specialty.

Some will consult by fax and email and phone. I would gather up the chart and all other records first.

And I would have the THK ingredients lists handy.

I too would have a good gut-feeling about THK as a base for a customized diet.