Flinks puppy testing is on an article in the leerburg "library".

I have heard that selection testing cannot really tell you about the agression factor and ability to withstand defense a pdd dog would need.
Is this untrue?
Or is there a different type of evaluation for a 6 mo -1 year old dog?
I wouldn't consider getting a finished dog. Training is the journey and fun for me.

I feel I could pick a good pup using selection testing.
I am interested in how to evaluate a young dog who has been titled, and possible ready to begin entering more defensive work.
-Would my answer be self-expanatory based on my experience with the dog's drives through other training and sports? I assume possibly so.
(why do I feel like I am having a conversation with myself?!)

Selection testing sounds like the way to go, but if you're buying online in a state that's far away or from Europe then that's a little more difficult. I don't want to rely on a breeder's selection. Unless they do provide dogs for PD's, they may have no clue...
Interesting, Kevin Sheldahl says on his site that all police dogs have sport as a base, and after that, the real training starts.
I wouldn't want afinished dog either, but I wouldn't mind an older pup maybe 6-8 mos.

 Quote: enrique muniz

...Interesting, Kevin Sheldahl says on his site that all police dogs have sport as a base, and after that, the real training starts....

I had the same question and Mike Schoonbrood told me the same thing, the same basic foundation training for PPD, police or sport is teaching a technique of how to fight. I'd quote Mike verbatim but didn't get his permission.

Watching a few videos isn't going to do it. You need to get in touch with different trainers in your area who will let you observe both working and sport dogs if you really want to learn what it's all about.

Just my opinion,,, there are 2 different questions here one if you buy or have a Sch dog do you have a PPD the answer is positively NO I have a Sch 3 (V) rated excellent 5 times and that makes him no PPD. I bought him thinking so. But with that said it helps if the dog passes the test to move on to PPD because of control, obedience, and prey drive. It has taking me months of talking and meeting with PPD trainers to find the right one for me, but never be under the impression that because your dog will Fire up or go into a bark and hold that he will be a PPD. There is only one secret to train a dog in PPD. So please take my advice on this from my trail and error.

Step 1. THE MOST IMPORTANT before you move you and your family and dog into this world you better have a clear understanding of what you’re really asking for. because once you go down this road there is NO turning back, what you are doing is training a dog to think on his own when he should bite and from this point you no longer have a pet that just runs around free or when you are busy that you can just forget, you must be conscious of his every move especially with kids. In other words it becomes a job.**Build yourself a written test of why you think you need a PPD dog and after answering it try to come up with an alternative answer for each question. You may not want to move forward.

Step 2. Buy Ed’s DVD’s on this type of work, this will not be a magic wand on training your dog in PPD what it will do is teach you 2 very important things 1. How to learn and understand your dog what do you have? a hard, soft, dominant, levels of correction, pack order all of this important stuff. 2. It will help you understand why and what your new trainer is doing to your dog basically help weed out the BS trainers

Step 3. Have a good trainer test your dog to see if he can hold up under this stress using many different situations day, night, with out suits. Test to see if your dog is locked in prey. Find out if your dog will stand up under this stress and if the answer is NO you better stop this program right then. And trust me finding this person (a good PPD Trainer) is almost as hard as winning the lotto.

Step 4. Find out if your dog is handler aggressive under this stress.

Step 5. Your dog has to have perfected the “OUT” command

Step 6. The work begins: this will take many, many hours of hard work for you and trainer and the family and the dog. You must practice and set up as many scenarios as possible and this work will never stop you must practice for ever.

Step 7. Don’t ever mistake this dog with a pet or just a family or property protective dog.. Understand that we all love our dogs very much; even some of us start considering them parts of the family. so understand exactly what the job is for a true PPD this means in time of threat or danger that the dog is left behind to deal or take the threat from you and your family. To hopefully give you the few safety seconds, so make sure you are prepared to leave him to be killed or hurt if he ever has to truly perform as a PPD.

** I am not a professional trainer of any sort Just have a great friend “Iron” that loves to work and I enjoy working with him.

Rick, I think that's one of the best responses I've gotten. The only thing is, and I go back to the begining, to find the appropriate trainer. I'm willing to put in the hours (I've done it in other areas of my life), and the commitment. We'll see if I'm lucky enough to win the lotto! (with the dog and trainer...)

 Quote: enrique muniz

Rick, I think that's one of the best responses I've gotten. The only thing is, and I go back to the begining, to find the appropriate trainer. I'm willing to put in the hours (I've done it in other areas of my life), and the commitment. We'll see if I'm lucky enough to win the lotto! (with the dog and trainer...)

One little quick test for the trainers call them on the phone and ask them if you bring your dog out can they train him/her in PPD, if there answer is “YES” with out seeing or testing the dog first, forget them and go to the next.

Good luck with your new venture, it’s like anything else if you have the commitment and resources you will find the tools you need to make this happen.

 Quote: Sandy Moore

 Quote: enrique muniz

...Interesting, Kevin Sheldahl says on his site that all police dogs have sport as a base, and after that, the real training starts....

I had the same question and Mike Schoonbrood told me the same thing, the same basic foundation training for PPD, police or sport is teaching a technique of how to fight. I'd quote Mike verbatim but didn't get his permission.

What I meant to say was I didn't ASK Mike for his permission, not that he didn't give it. Sorry Mike, I gave the wrong impression, didn't realize it until I re-read my post.

Will,
I've been training PPD,s for about 3 years now but I have never trained a dog for Schutzhund. The first dog I trained in this area was a soft dog who actually has a very good defense drive. I learned quite a bit from him simply because of his temperament. I feel like I'm ready to move on to a dog who has a harder temperament. I recognize a lot of mistakes I made with this dog that I certainly won't make again. One of the questions I have has to do with the carry that Ed talks about in his dvd on bite training. Would you just not work on the carry for a ppd, or is there more to the carry then I'm understanding at this point: and if you do work on the carrying of the sleeve will the dog pretty much just spit it out on his own to focus on the man when you start into defense work? With my dog, because of the way I went about his training this never was even a thought for me because I didn't do a lot of prey drive work until later. I recognize this is backwards now and it has been hard to overcome this mistake as it manifests in the dogs
ability to be comfortable in my arms when he's holding his prey (ball).

If I am retraining a dog with a sport background, I use a sleeve for a bit and let them carry it before switching over to suit, etc.
If the dog has a strong desire to carry we will make the change over onto a bitesuit jacket that is unsnapped and allow the dog to take the coat ( after an arm bite ) and carry for a few weeks until we've changed targeting, etc.

We also wear the buitsuit for the first several muzzle work sessions, it saves wear and tear on the decoy.