heather,

thanks for that info (about goldens). Along with all your posts and some pm's I've received, I'm beginning to understand that the media has a lot more to do with this than any specific breed. I was putting their reports together with my personal experiences and drawing general conclusions. Again, I apologize for this. Seeing that kid really shook me up a few years back, and I guess I'm not really over it yet enough to be talking about this subject without sounding like an idiot myself.

I hope I'm still welcome on this forum.

Rick -

Forgive me for trying to tell people what your saying when i don't even know :-D

If it happens once, its a terrible accident. If it happens two times its a crime and you shouldn't own a dog. I do think handlers should be held to a higher standard though. Just like Police are held to a higher standard doing there job.

 Quote: Michael West

If it happens once, its a terrible accident. If it happens two times its a crime and you shouldn't own a dog.

Is this really a crime, or are you just saying it should be?

 Quote: Michael West

I do think handlers should be held to a higher standard though. Just like Police are held to a higher standard doing there job.

When you say handlers, do you mean all dog owners? They are handlers, too.

 Quote: Anna Christie

I hope I'm still welcome on this forum.

We don't like your kind, 'round here...(piano music trills to a stop. Awkward silence...)

Anna,

Let me be the first to say you are very welcome. But don't be afraid, because some of us are very critical, and passionate. The bottom line is, everyone can learn something, and everyone has at least something to contribute that is unique. The kind of interaction we have here is awesome, and can only make everyone better...

 Quote: Rick Miller

 Quote: Michael West

If it happens once, its a terrible accident. If it happens two times its a crime and you shouldn't own a dog.

Is this really a crime, or are you just saying it should be?

Just my opinion on the subject thats all.

 Quote: Rick Miller

 Quote: Michael West

I do think handlers should be held to a higher standard though. Just like Police are held to a higher standard doing there job.

When you say handlers, do you mean all dog owners? They are handlers, too.

I am sorry i should have explained a bit more. When i say handler i mean someone who works with dogs professionally. Not pet owners. I think i would also put in anyone who uses there dogs for sports and the dog is trained how to attack, once you teach your dog this, that dog is a weapon.

Like i said this is all my opinion and there are always cases that would be exempt due to certen situations.

Forgive my ignorance:

"Denver is already the worst BSL city...."

BSL City?

BSL: Breed-specific legislation

 Quote: nathan tierney

Anyways, Jenni...stripper driver huh? That'd be an...interesting area to work in. o_O And to add to it, you do sound a little scary

Jenni or Jinn? I'm Jinn, and I drove the stripper. :P Not Jenni. Am I scary, or her?

There's a lot of throwing the word "criminal" around, what is meant by it? Does it mean that any regular 'ole joe-schmoe pet owner who never took the time to properly train their dog and through their negligence it bites someone makes them a "criminal" (in the objective sense)? Or are we talking about the technical definition of criminal, violating the law? Since it would be, in most states I know of for the US, violating the leash law to have a loose animal on public grounds not designated for off-leash activity (say animal bites at park), or when an animal bites a person it becomes a crime.
I know someone said their opinion was that an irresponsible person should be a criminal for allowing their dog to go uncontrolled, and it's confusing.
It's all technicalities. :P

Personally, most pet owners today that I've met and heard about as the general populace aren't very intelligent when it comes to knowing their animal. Fido becomes a member of the family and not a member of the pack, those "cute things he does!" include nipping children's heels, growling at someone who wants on the couch, and choking himself in attempt to see other dogs while on leash. To us, aka the people of the board or "caninely educated" as I consider it, those behaviors signal a warning in our heads. But alas.. it shocks me at how many people DO NOT see the warning signs and are SURPRISED when their pet acts on aggression towards a human or animal.
And for me, I'm not even that smart! I have no former "dog training" abilities or experience, my own dog is what I'd consider to be reliably obedient by any means, and I'm still learning considering I have no background in dog raising or breeding, only volunteering for 5+ years at the county animal shelter.

The people love to read about the "shock and unexpectedness" of a dog attack or dog bite in the papers, yet when it includes the phrase "pit bull" in the article, immediately the reaction goes from "I didn't expect this!" to "oh, of course this happened, it was a disaster WAITING to occur, it was a pit bull. This was obvious from day one when that dog was born that it would do this, it was ONLY a matter of time, completely unavoidable!!"

Edited by Jinn Schmitz (07/16/2007 09:47 AM)
Edit reason: overzealous typoes!

 Quote: jinn schmitz

Personally, most pet owners today that I've met and heard about as the general populace aren't very intelligent when it comes to knowing their animal. Fido becomes a member of the family and not a member of the pack, those "cute things he does!" include nipping children's heels, growling at someone who wants on the couch, and choking himself in attempt to see other dogs while on leash.

Exactly.

Solid pack structure is the key to avoiding these behaviors and situations like the one in this thread. People who don't understand or misunderstand the rules cause their dogs to have confusion about who is in charge, ending in a horrible attack in this case.

I'm just going to list some of the things I can think of that were wrong here...

#1 Not on leash.

#2 Running free.

#3 Owners didn't know the proper way to break up a dog fight.

#4 Improperly trained. No dog should ever bite someone unless they are trained to bite. If so, they should be able to release the bite on command.

I could go on and on probably, but I think the biggest one is #1. If this dog was on leash, I have a hard time believing it could have bitten anyone.

I am going to give you a scenerio that I've been thinking about that seems applicable. Imagine a dog that has been playing that runs free in the house-off leash, gets to go up on the couch, recieves attention anytime it nudges. I think I am describing the pack structure of many homes here, and as we all know, these rules give the dog the impression that it is in charge.

 Quote: jinn schmitz

There's a lot of throwing the word "criminal" around, what is meant by it? Does it mean that any regular 'ole joe-schmoe pet owner who never took the time to properly train their dog and through their negligence it bites someone makes them a "criminal" (in the objective sense)? Or are we talking about the technical definition of criminal, violating the law?

I think it would be wise for all of us to refrain from using this term unless you are a lawyer or a LEO. Other then that people are using that term to loosely (including me)