Thats the way it is in Belgium, I can feed myself for the same money as i spend on Raw on the Dogs, In Fact when i add up the cost of the extras like Salmon Oil, Vitamins,etc They eat better than i do. Now it has become impossible to get the Offal bits i fed Chicken livers and chicken hearts and beef hearts,plus chicken legs and wings
i can get ground or minced beef at 4.50 euros for 450 grams, but that amount will not stop the dog being hungry
If i buy Lambs Liver it will cost me 3.50 euros for about 4 ozs
Fish over here i cannot afford to buy for myself except say once a week and it would not be a big piece, so that is certainly out, The last time i looked at the price of Salmon it was 22 euros a kg, Cod is about 26 euros a kg
So my Dogs will have to make do with Orijen Kibble with Salmon Oil and Vitamin E capsules plus a few Steamed Veggies, and perhaps an egg a couple of times a week
I have today sent away for some Orijen Meat Adult and there Fish Kibble

Yeah Steve, I don't blame you. I can sympathize on how tough it is to feed raw over there. Are you still feeding the pup raw? Or is he going to the Orijen as well?

 Quote: steve patrick

.... so my Dogs will have to make do with Orijen Kibble with Salmon Oil and Vitamin E capsules plus a few Steamed Veggies, and perhaps an egg a couple of times a week
I have today sent away for some Orijen Meat Adult and there Fish Kibble

This site concurs with the Leerburg philosophy about feeding dogs, ranking fresh food #1, then the THK-type dehydrated-at-low-temps foods, then canned and kibble.
http://www.healthyhappydogs.com/Article.PetFood

I usually forget to mention canned foods, partly because THK provides a superior product (IMO). But the canning process makes it easy for the manufacturer to concoct grain-free recipes (not that many DO, of course!). Wellness, for example, has three new recipes that have no grain and that are 95% meat.

Anyway, Dr. Siegler (URL above) makes suggestions for enhancing the kibble diet. He reminds us that THK and the best of the canned foods (which might be out of the financial range of lots of dog folks as the main diet) can really enhance the kibble diet.

He mentions variety (which Steve is going for with his order of both meat and fish kibble ) .... a very good thing, IMO.

Probiotics like http://leerburg.com/50.htm and the live cultures in natural unflavored yogurt (which will say on the package if it contains live, active cultures) are a good addition to a diet that's extremely cooked; THK can be used as a "gravy" for not much money, to add some much fresher ingredients and variety; tender greens will add chlorophyll, a whole bunch of vitamins and minerals, antioxidants, and more; fish oil and Vitamin E are very important, no matter what the diet; some of the meat for the people-dinner would add enzymes and freshness ..... and so on. Even the water used to steam vegetables is a good thing to give the dogs.

Even if we have to feed kibble, we can start with the best kibbles and make them better with some fresh foods. The closer we can get to fresh raw food, the better.

JMO.







http://leerburg.com/honestkitchen.htm
http://leerburg.com/47.htm
http://leerburg.com/53.htm

Steve,

One suggestion that I got from a friend who converted over his older dog to raw was this: start adding either ground beef or ground turkey, just a few ounces, to his kibble a week at a time...he probably hasn't maintained the enzymes in his stomach to digest meat properly, so his gut's going to have to grow some "help" over a longer period of time. If you do this over several weeks and slowly add more meat and less kibble, I really think you could convert him over with minimal effort. Cold turkey, pardon the pun, would probably be really difficult for you and him in several ways.

Perhaps trying this approach to getting your older gentleman onto a healthier diet will be gentler on his stomach...good luck.

Mike M
I did just as your friend did over a week or so but the old Dog did not take to it, He has been fed Kibble all his 14 years but not excatly just Kibble
When we Have meat for our evening meal and that is say four times a week Before i put ours on the Plate a piece of each of mine and my brothers is cut off for Charlie, this is how it has been since he was a pup, then i save him some greens and Carrots and mash it all up with his Kibble then the gravy or Sauce we have for our dinner i dilute a little to make it just a weak gravy and put this on Charlies Kibble Mix. He has kept pretty well all those years
Now For the G.S Pup after a Lot of time over a week travelling over a 30 km radius to find someone who would get me enough Raw to feed him, I managed to get a supply of Beef Hearts, Chicken Hearts and Chicken Livers, but over here it has to be prepacked as for Human Consumpsion and Weighed, Now i have run out of this and the Place i got it from says it is not worth it to them to bother any more, Then i had to Buy Chicken Legs which are packed for Humans and Chicken Wings which are not cheap
Now i have to feed Fred the Pup the same as the Old Dog, But i am not feeding them just Kibble
I purchased Salmon Oil, Vitamin s and Vitamin E from Leerburg but the cost of getting it over here then you pay Belgian Customs makes it very expensive, But if i have to do it to get these Vitamins i will
We will feed both Dogs on Orijen Kibble a Meat Kibble plus a Fish Kibble they do not contain Grains
Then i will add Salmon Oil, and the Vitamins to it, Also i will steam some Greens and Courgette etc plus giving them an whole egg with Shell as Per leerburg, then i will try and get some natural yogurt, Finally i will give the Pup a Couple of Chicken Legs or Chichen Wings a Couple of Times a Week
I do not know how else to to it. It is annoying when you cannot feed a Dog the way you want to.
But it has not been for the lack of trying What is the opinion of you guys on this feeding Program, or can i tweak it a little more without costing too much, Remember i am on a Pension

I've heard good things about Orijen but don't know for sure, Steve...

have you tried directly approaching a farm? It's possible you could develop a one-on-one relationship with a family farm that would process an animal for you and your pups. Might be MUCH cheaper for you guys...just a thought.

also, I think you'd have to try to convert Charlie over a period of weeks, not in one week...14 years is a long time to switch in 7 days...but I still think it'd be worth it in the long run. I would bet you'd see an improvement in his overall health and energy...but I understand your situation. Do what you can do and enjoy your pups

Steve, I admire your efforts for your pups. I wish it was much easier for you to feed how you want. I get flack from friends & family here for taking the time to leave work early & lug 40lbs of chicken every other month & to spend a few extra mins per day to handle all this raw meat. I think you are doing the best you can, and I have heard that simply the salmon oil & vitamin E added to the kibble does wonders. Yogurt & eggs are good twice a week or so. I think the raw chicken is good to supplement for their teeth mainly. I think you are doing a good job I'm sure your pups are eating way better than most dogs in your country.