I know we are looking to get as close to whole prey as possible, but I was under the impression that whole chickens tend to have way to much meat?

What ratio where you seeing when you disected the chicken?

And what kind of chicken was it?

I think there is a large difference between chicken raised for human consumption fattened up as quick as possible and a lean wild prey item built for survival.

Just curious.

 Quote: andy deitz

I know we are looking to get as close to whole prey as possible, but I was under the impression that whole chickens tend to have way to much meat?

What ratio where you seeing when you disected the chicken?

And what kind of chicken was it?

I think there is a large difference between chicken raised for human consumption fattened up as quick as possible and a lean wild prey item built for survival.

Just curious.

Absolutely ... poultry raised for meat has way more meat (and fat) than a wild bird -- especially breast meat.

This was not a great scientific experiment, for several reasons. All we had were a few different grocery chickens; we could look at visible fat only, since we didn't go as far as rendering the fat out of the meat; we had three (I think) birds, as opposed to a large sampling.

The idea was that we wanted to see which parts seemed to be the most similar (in a rough breakdown) to the entire bird. Since most of us were using poultry for most of the RMB part of our dogs' diets, and since we were using all farm-raised purchased poultry, that's what we looked at.

We saw about 80% meat (including fat and skin) and about 20% bone.

Of the meat, we saw about 20% visible fat (including skin).

Of course, visible fat is pretty useless as a means of determining fat percent.

The whole exercise was strictly a visual comparison of parts to the whole.

There are many other comparisons it would have been nice to be able to do, such as wild-to-farm, or fat on older v. younger birds, and so on.

But we pretty much got what we wanted, which was an idea of which parts were roughly similar to the whole animal with regard to the calcium-phosphorous ratio.

When you say "too much meat," do you mean an unnatural meat-to-bone ratio? I imagine that's true. OTOH, I'd guess that even commercial poultry (consumed in its entirety) would yield a good proportion of bone/cartilage compared to a big ungulate whose leg bones are probably cracked open for marrow but otherwise left by the wolf.

Interesting stuff. And again, your point about variety is a very good one.


P.S. I tend to rely very heavily on poultry for the RMB part of my dogs' diet, and to add variety via the "other" components. I guess many raw feeders do.

 Quote: connie sutherland

When you say "too much meat," do you mean an unnatural meat-to-bone ratio? I imagine that's true.

Thats exactly what I mean. Especially being of a farm raised variety.

I see your point with the large prey however.

 Quote:

P.S. I tend to rely very heavily on poultry for the RMB part of my dogs' diet, and to add variety via the "other" components. I guess many raw feeders do.

I use alot of poultry as well, but like to mix it up a good amount of the time with rodents.

Mice, rats, rabbits, and g. pigs I find to be an excellent addition to poultry in the rmb category that most people wont, or dont think to use.

A nice Jumbo rat, now thats a whole natural meal.

I have a 9 month old alaskan malamute and decided to switch him to raw. I tried to feed him nature's variety venison and lamb patties. It also has bone, organ meat, eggs and veggies in it.
He sniffed it and walked away even though I know he was hungry (he had not eaten all day) I attempted to hand feed him a small piece and he shook his head back and forth as if he was saying no. I also tried to put a piece in his mouth and he spit it out and made faces. any suggestions on getting him started on raw
thanks, jamie

 Quote: Jamie M. Minchew

I have a 9 month old alaskan malamute and decided to switch him to raw. I tried to feed him nature's variety venison and lamb patties. It also has bone, organ meat, eggs and veggies in it.
He sniffed it and walked away even though I know he was hungry (he had not eaten all day) I attempted to hand feed him a small piece and he shook his head back and forth as if he was saying no. I also tried to put a piece in his mouth and he spit it out and made faces. any suggestions on getting him started on raw
thanks, jamie

Fast him for a few days. Once he figures out that he's not getting anything else, his attitude will change. Of course, that's my way (the mean way) and I'm sure others will offer more gentle ways. I wouldn't let the dog think it was a big deal, which is why I'd just do it quickly with the fasting method. If you make a big deal out of it, he'll surely get suspicious.

Have you tried just raw chicken (with the skin removed)? Just to get him started? Or some ground chicken or turkey?

I helped switch my parents dog to raw and he would refuse the raw meat at first too, so I boiled skinless/boneless chicken breasts just enough to cook it on the outside and raw on the inside (were not even warm in the middle) and voila.....he now eats raw. My mom grinds his meat (bone in) because she does not like feeding him whole bones.

 Quote: Carol Boche

Or some ground chicken or turkey?

That's what I have used with seniors who were suspicious at first. Maybe it was the texture, because once they try the ground poultry, they have no problem with a gradual transition to the RMBs. Or that's what my experience has been.

Wouldn't eat the ground poultry either. I think I will try the chicken breasts

 Quote: jamie m. minchew

Wouldn't eat the ground poultry either. I think I will try the chicken breasts

Chicken breasts were the parts my suspicious senior adoptees were most suspicious about. That was why I assumed it was a "new texture" issue.

Is this dog by any chance getting kibble too?

Gave him raw chicken breasts and he ate them no problem. He seems to have a problem with the nature's variety patties. There must be something in them that he does not like.