Quote: Jennifer Marshal

Vanessa - yes that sounds like territorial aggression, the home is the dogs territory whether the dog is dominant or not.

I've had an interesting situation off-territory with my very stable male dobe, also a dominant dog who is submissive to me: We were in town at about 10:00 PM and I was walking back to my car which was parked on a dark side street. I noticed a guy walking a few paces back, and didn't think much of it and kept going, almost to where I could see my car. Out of the blue, my docile fellow whipped around and went ballistic; barking, growling and foaming at the mouth, and it was in an INSTANT. When I turned around I noticed that this guy had suddenly and quietly snuck up VERY close behind me, though was getting ready to run away the moment I saw him. My dog was gearing up to go after him (which I'm sure was prey drive at that point) but I got my wits about me in time to tell him to 'leave it', which he did; though he growled all the way to the car in spite of being in 'heel'. I don't know that there was any ill-intent here on the part of the guy, but it DID freak me out that he got so close. I've wondered what set my dog off to such a degree. He's had no protection training at all, and he really doesn't have the temperament/drives for it. What could his motive be? Was he looking out for his own best interests here, do you think? In any case, I was grateful!

i think a lot of times it's fear or territoriality provoking reactions.

i was backpacking w/luc in the summer on an isolated trail. like a loser, i tore two ligaments in my ankle, so we made our way back to the closest campsite. 3 sea kayakers came into the same bay to camp, and b/c they were close, i took luc over to say hello. he absolutely lost it when the men walked towards us to say hello. he didn't want them within 10M of us. they were all nice guys, responded well, and eventually i was able to take luc over there and we had supper. when one of the men left to go to the washroom, luc again demonstrated aggression when he came back. the next morning, when i was down on the beach (luc was tethered less than 10M away in camp), and one of the men came onto the beach about 30M away, luc again lost it.

he acted like that once we were off the trail and staying at an outfitters i know. nobody was 'allowed' near us. at that point, b/c i'd gone out in one shot due to a bear visiting our camp multiple times (the only attractant being luc's food, luc did scare him off, but multiple visits means i'm not hanging around), i was in enough pain that driving was difficult, and handling luc was difficult. add to that he was used to 2-3 hours of exercise, and i wasn't able to take him for walks past 5-10 minutes, and it led to one mixed up dog who was new enough and unsure enough to fall into a defensive mode.

everyone kept saying what a protective dog i have. i don't think luc was protecting me. he knew something was wrong, and that i was physically disabled, and i think his behaviour was mostly fear based and a result of him feeling unsettled and me not being a physical presence for him. we were back at the same outfitters a month later, and - completely different dog. b/c he's a GSD, people assume that he was being protective of me, but really i think he was confused and acting out.

The Man I go to for training told me dogs can not only sense things we can not but also their sense of smell is such that they can sense chemical changes in a person and the scent they put off if they have intentions to do harm. Just a thought.

Our older GSD/lab was out with my teen daughter in the park some years ago. Four intoxicated men approached her, and the dog watched them. One man put his hand on my daughter's shoulder. She said the dog moved too fast to see, but the man yelled in pain, and they all ran off. While I do not think the dog would have tried to fight off four men in a sustained attack, I do think she was being protective and not territorial, and not guarding my daughter as a resource. I have never had another dog that I thought would behave this way. I was not at all surprised at her behavior.

In another instance, our younger GSD, at age 2, stood between my mother and a strange worker in my mother's house, and barked loudly. At that age, especially, he did not have an aggressive or possessive bone in his body, but I think he didn't want a stranger to approach my mother. We were out for the day, possibly that made him more protective.

 Quote: jennifer marshal

Yes, the dog can be acting in defense of himself, his territory, his tree, his alley, his leash, his treats in the handlers pocket...

But dogs that will defend themselves with the handler around, some would not do the same if alone. Even if the handler is lower ranking, it is a pack member and essentially "back up."

Jennifer,

This made me laugh out loud!

My dog will stand on the steps of my back door (high point/perch can see over the fence) and bark at some strange thing.

I will go and open the door to see what's up and as soon as I open the door he will bolt advancing and barking in the direction of the offending strange thing ( he is still contained by the fence).

Tough guy with mama/back up around, content to sit and bark from his high perch without me

Ahhh the floppy eared sucky boy, aloof, alert...but a protection dog he is not

 Quote:

In another instance, our younger GSD, at age 2, stood between my mother and a strange worker in my mother's house, and barked loudly. At that age, especially, he did not have an aggressive or possessive bone in his body, but I think he didn't want a stranger to approach my mother. We were out for the day, possibly that made him more protective.

That reminds me of my grandpa's GSD Gala. I was about five and she was old and arthritic but we were sunning ourselves on the front porch one day when a mop salesman came by. She came UNGLUED and my grandma had to dash out and haul the dog in by her collar first, then ordered me into the house. Gala was leaping against the security screen door, snarling and foaming at the mouth while the guy was picking his mops up off the walkway. She made it abundantly clear that man was not to come within ten feet of me. It was such a vivid recollection and my grandma said she was stunned Gala reacted like that, being stiff with arthritis.

I liked the comment about the dog alert barking because they don't think you are taking a threat seriously - it makes a lot of sense. But I still think that in some cases dogs just can tell something's wrong. I know they can smell changes in body chemistry - some react weirdly to fear scent or adrenaline. Maybe that combined with their amazing power of observation in regards to body language accounts for it. I do view barking as protectiveness because they are alerting you to a situation - it's an alarm. However, I agree that doesn't necessarily mean the dog will defend you bodily - I know it can be trained but unless it's tested for real you'll never know for sure.

I think it can be said that a correct GSD is naturally suspicious but as Julie wrote that is a long way from engaging an oncoming threat. Norman Epstein

So are you saying that if a dog is "resource guarding" you, it sees itself as pack leader and you as a lower ranking member?

The other night my husband and I were laying on the floor playing with our 11 month old bullmastiff. Star is a "lick the burglar to death" kind of dog and every person we meet on our walks must be "out walking just to meet her" and every dog (so far) is a friend to play with. But otherwise she's basically a wimp and will shy away from any loud noises, the wind, etc.

As we were laying on the floor my husband decided to "test" Star, and started to play shove me. I am the one who takes care of Star - food, baths, walks, training, everything - so my husband wanted to see how Star would react. Star growled a low growl and jumped in between us and started pushing my husband off of me.

So would this be resource guarding? I'm the one who provides all things for her so she has to guard her resource? Does this also mean that she sees herself as a higher rank than me?

If so, I have lots more work to do!!!!

I have had many experiences with Lady and can see why it is not advisable to train a dog as a protection dog uneccesarily. I lived in Mexico for about 4 years and found her to be very reliable guard dog but she is also stubborn and head strong, and if she does not trust someone, nothing I say is going to convince her to take her eye off them. a man once came at me to hit me (it was in play but she never liked him to begin with) and she, who was lounging beside me, offleash, threw herself on him barking a la Schutzund (slobber everywhere) making him stumble back and probably wet himself. she never put her teeth on him but she was serious and he knew it. I dont think that I need to train her for me to feel that shes competent, since she already has a really good understanding of situations and doesnt struggle with being soft spoken. Although I might train for the fun of it

I too have an "I love everyone" GSD. I would say he's the Dalai Lami of the dog world, I swear.

He doesn't bark much so when he does, I look to see what he's barking at. Anyway, he's only acted "aggressive" or "protective" or "assertive" or whatever you want to call it twice (he'll be 3 this March).

But the one thing he can be counted on to do consistently is this:

He sleeps in my bedroom at night and is free to roam whereever he wants but chooses to stay with me (not allowed on my bed) 100% of the time. maybe he'll venture right outside my door but that's as far as he'll go. Anyway, if he hears something during the night, whether he barks for 10 seconds or 3 minutes, he will get up from where he is, and always go right to the spot in between me and the door. He will stand there and bark or lie down and growl but that's where he instinctively goes.

What is not clear to me is the part about getting up and inserting himself in between me and the door. What is he doing - exactly?

Is he being protective? Is he making himself the first line of defense? I've never completely understood his instinct to go between me and the door.