There is a Schutzhund club about an hour from me that is an all-breed club. Most of the dogs are bully breeds. So you would have to contact your club and find out. I personally know someone who has Catahoulas in Schutzhund (I don't think they are titled dogs but I don't know for sure). Catahoulas are similar in personality to RRs I believe.

 Quote: Alex Corral

I think Enrique has a point. skip
SchH was originally started to test the GSD, some other breeds have completed those tests (Boxers,Dobes,Schnauzers,Bouviers,Rotts) others have excelled (like Mals). Besides breeds, there are also all sorts of arguments about the sport itself and which are watered down and which are not. It's an endless opinion.

It's really about how you train, the expectation that you have, and being honest about what you and your dog are capable of doing.

With the right dog, handler, helper and training philosophy; schutzhund is still a valid & viable evaluation of a dog for breeding purposes. The problem is that many people are unable or unwilling to objectively understand their limitations as a handler/trainer & the limitations of their dog.
In the lifetime of your dog you spend much, much more time training, than trialing - that is in many ways what tells you what kind of dog you have. Also understand that the trial should be a test. Training is one thing, trialing is another. In training you should help the dog win, the trial is not necessarily the time or place for that.
The people who are often most vocal about how 'easy' schutzhund is, have never titled a dog or spent a meaningful amount of time training in SchH. The amount of pressure put on the dog has a lot more to do with the helper doing his job as an individual, than it does the concept of SchH protection as a sport. Again, it goes back to your skill level, the skill & knowledge of the people you train with, the dog & the honesty and perspective with which you view all of this.

Are KNPV & NVBK Ring more difficult that SchH? IMO, probably, but most people in this country have a hard enough time with SchH as it stands today....

If someone wants to get an *off* breed and do SchH, go ahead. If they're realistic about their goals & their dog, go for it. Any time you go onto the trial field, whatever the sport or breed, there is a possibility that you could fail...if you can't handle that, then choose another hobby. JMO.

 Quote: Alex Corral

I think Enrique has a point. skip
SchH was originally started to test the GSD, some other breeds have completed those tests (Boxers,Dobes,Schnauzers,Bouviers,Rotts) others have excelled (like Mals). Besides breeds, there are also all sorts of arguments about the sport itself and which are watered down and which are not. It's an endless opinion.

It's really about how you train, the expectation that you have, and being honest about what you and your dog are capable of doing.

With the right dog, handler, helper and training philosophy; schutzhund is still a valid & viable evaluation of a dog for breeding purposes. The problem is that many people are unable or unwilling to objectively understand their limitations as a handler/trainer & the limitations of their dog.
In the lifetime of your dog you spend much, much more time training, than trialing - that is in many ways what tells you what kind of dog you have. Also understand that the trial should be a test. Training is one thing, trialing is another. In training you should help the dog win, the trial is not necessarily the time or place for that.
The people who are often most vocal about how 'easy' schutzhund is, have never titled a dog or spent a meaningful amount of time training in SchH. The amount of pressure put on the dog has a lot more to do with the helper doing his job as an individual, than it does the concept of SchH protection as a sport. Again, it goes back to your skill level, the skill & knowledge of the people you train with, the dog & the honesty and perspective with which you view all of this.

Are KNPV & NVBK Ring more difficult that SchH? IMO, probably, but most people in this country have a hard enough time with SchH as it stands today....

If someone wants to get an *off* breed and do SchH, go ahead. If they're realistic about their goals & their dog, go for it. Any time you go onto the trial field, whatever the sport or breed, there is a possibility that you could fail...if you can't handle that, then choose another hobby. JMO.

Well said, John. I was racking my brain to say what you said, in as tactful a manner. It's about 300 points, not the other dogs in the trial, and it's about the judge you choose to trial under, and the helpers.

I still don't agree. If we take *off* breeds to do what they're not supposed to do then where are we going to end up? Boston terriers doing water rescue? Newfoundlands herding in the Arizona heat? C'mon.

My point is, just because the person likes a particular sport doesn't mean the dog should do it. Schutzhund is not a free for all. It's becoming that way but it doesn't mean it should be.

I said it before, it's about honoring the sport and the breed. The amount of pressure being put on the dogs today is a lot less than it used to be. Yes, pressure on the dogs has to do with the helper but also it's a sign of the times. We see it all the time with showline shepherds, sub-standard dogs earning SchH 3 titles, and so on.

I will say it again, honor the breed you like by doing what they were bred to do. That will help the sport too. There's absolutely nothing wrong with giving them jobs that fit them. Otherwise what will happen is what we see with, for example, the American shepherds. Lack of drives, unhealthy, spooky. Why?Because along the way somebody thought that shepherds should just be house pets that should look a certain way and not have a job at all.

i don't know where you get your information about schutzhund becoming a "free for all". Did you know that in 1980 4 out of the 18 members of the UScA Schutzhund III club were molosser type breeds - except one that was a Labrador Retriever. I imagine if someone has time to extrapolate the numbers for current years SchH III club the % will be very similar. Of course, the sport will always be dominated by herding breeds - it was molded after and plays on their strengths, but no harm, no foul when other breeds dip their toes in the sport -the changes that were made (for better or for worse) had nothing to do with other breeds participating in the sport. As for the Jack Russell - if you were referring to the video of the uncomparable Mr. Murphy, you are aware that was just a demonstration? However, if JRT's were any bigger I sure as hell would imagine they would dominate just about any sport you threw at them!!!!!

Here is just my personal opinion about this general topic -

Schutzhund is a *sport*. Yes, it was established as a way to evaluate GSD breeding stock and, for some, it is still that. However, I don't believe that the "watering down" of the sport has anything to do with alternative breeds competing. After all, it wasn't the ACD, Ridgeback, or Poodle people who decided to take things like the attack on handler out of the SchH I or the gunfire out of the BH ;-)

Once you take an event that was created to ensure that only appropriate dogs were bred and than turn it into a competition where money and egos are at stake, you are going to lose some of the "purity" of the intention of the event. Couple that with the big price tags that some of these dogs are being sold for and you get even further from what was the original intention of the event.

I agree that people should use breed specific purpose events to test their breeding stock. I would argue that how my ACDs respond on cattle is a lot more important to me than it would be to a GSD owner. However, I would not want to see GSDs kicked out of a cattle trial just because the breed was not bred to work cattle.

I have only scanned this thread occasionally so have not read every post in depth. If someone wants to try to do the sport with a RR, and is aware that it is an uphill battle that might never be won and has a club willing to help them, I say go for it. If someone wants to get an RR with dreams of a SchH III, I would say save your money and get another breed.

I do SchH with ACDs. I have a club that is very inclusive and values me as a member. After all my dues and my volunteering to help at pratice and trials is just as needed as someone with a Malinois or GSD! When I started out I went to a club who basically told me I was wasting my time. I shrugged it off and found a group that would work with me and I have found some success. I would hate to see the sport become so elite that individuals like me who are important members of clubs (clubs who are the backbone of the AWDF member organizations) become forbidden to participate because they have an "off" breed.

After all, at the end of the day, my dog was able to get his title with a gunshot in the BH and an Attack on Handler in the I - so me and my cowdog can't be blamed for those types of changes ;-) Oh yeah, I don't want Christmas judges either - just a judge that will judge my dog as they would a GSD or Mal.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 Quote: enrique muniz

 Quote: kathleen heth

Yeah modify it you all can't have all the fun .... or are people afraid they might be shown up by a breed not typical to the sport .

It's not about being shown up. If you look at high level competition or even club competition, the ones that dominate will always be mals and gsds. So it's not about being shown up.

We have to honor the sport and honor the breed. Like I said befre, if the handler is talented enough he/she can make a sheep do the sport.

I believe this is about advancing the breeds and the jobs they do, not about pleasing everybody just because they think it's fun. If it were that way, why not try french ring, mondio, psa, etc... IMHO that little jack russell looks like a clown.

Put real pressure on him and he will fail misserably. Not trying to be mean, just the standards have been lowered so nuch in certain clubs it is ridiculous.

Right or wrong, if every dog that enters a Schutzhund trial is tested as it was intended, Schutzhund, as a sport, would dissapear.
Right or wrong, today it's a sport.
I doubt any PD that knows what the're looking for will give a crap about Schutzhund titles. They do their own testing and I doubt much of it resembles "sport".
Hope ya got a good pair of bite pants when you decide to "put real pressure' on a good JRT.

I'm going to comment as a handler that put a SchH II on an Airedale Terrier many years ago -

Working one of the non-traditional breeds in SchH is both enriching and frustrating - be prepared for a lot of problem solving that handlers with the traditional breeds won't encounter.

But in the end, you'll be a better handler for it, I promise you that.


By the way, I could have titled *four* GSD's in the time it took me to get a SchH II on that blasted Airedale - be prepared to make this a "long-term" project!

"Put a Schutzhund title on an Airedale".

Before I die.......