Lynne and Connie, it is truly wonderful to see people coming to the defense of their fellow forum members...but is it really necessary? I don't think MA is going to stop posting because I said he had a problem and needed much more than a coffee or the fact that he made me defensive.

and Lynne, I must disagree with you... it is very possible to detect a person's "tone" within a post. Think about it.... why did I find fault with that individual one post and no other. I have been online long enough to know about tonality in language.

Anyway can we forget all about this?

Randy thats a gorgeous dog you have there,... is it a Shiloh shephard?

Thanks Mike for your post.

I have no idea where I should begin. What do you suggest?

 Quote: Heidi Ludwig

Anyway can we forget all about this?

Done!

Did I say that nothing bad has happened before? This is bad but not soooo bad.
It was winter and the dog and I were on a walk around the block. Max and I were just turning into our street when a group of adolescent boys came running towards us (they had just been throwing snow balls at a bus) I warned them to stop running, especially since they were coming so close to us. The dog and I moved to the side of the road to avoid them as much as possible. One kid just kept on running towards us, threw himself down on the street very close to where we were standing, then proceeded to cover his head with his arms almost waiting for something to happen. The kid's behaviour totally pissed me off.

Max pounced on him and pinned him down with his front legs holding the kid in place. No biting, not much growling I don't think. I pulled Max off the kid and we went on our way.

 Quote: heidi ludwig

Did I say that nothing bad has happened before? This is bad but not soooo bad.

Really? I think this is pretty damn bad.

A kid, behaving stupidly as kids are wont to do, got pinned down on a public street by a big dog with the owner standing right there. By the Grace of God that dumb kid wasn't hurt.

And after 5 pages, you are still "totally pissed" at a kid behaving like a kid? For all the purported "owning" that you've done I'm seeing a disturbing theme here:

The neighbor is afraid of dogs so maybe she provoked a bite. Or was it a bruise? Doesn't matter because anyway his teeth are filed down.

The cat was playing with the dog's ball so somehow it was "only right" that the dog woofed or lunged or...whatever.

A kid on a public street didn't listen to your warning so somehow it was his fault your dog "pounced & pinned" him.

You've received excellent advice from the most knowledgable people on this board, including and especially Mike Arnold, and after all of that you're focusing on what a kid did and NOT what YOU didn't do...control your dog.

Sorry, this is REALLY bad and after all of this I'm not seeing that you get it yet.

 Quote: heidi ludwig

The kid's behaviour totally pissed me off.

Max pounced on him and pinned him down with his front legs holding the kid in place. No biting, not much growling I don't think. I pulled Max off the kid and we went on our way.

What?

And what were you doing?

I honestly hope that you start reading and listening and watching training videos.

It is not the victim's "fault" when your dog bites, growls, lunges, or pins someone down. It's YOURS.

I don't care how stupid the victim is or behaves. That's what people are: stupid, sometimes. And kids? Often.

Your dog's behavior, not the victim's, is your concern. Please think about what happens to your dog if you continue on this path.

 Quote: heidi ludwig

Max pounced on him and pinned him down with his front legs holding the kid in place. No biting, not much growling I don't think. I pulled Max off the kid and we went on our way.

Sorry Heidi, but I'm very concerned about this too. "Not much growling you don't think"? You just pulled the dog off the kid and went on your way? You didn't correct the $h%t out of the dog for doing this? I don't want you to think that we are not sympathetic to the issues you are experiencing with this dog, but pinning a kid down on the street and growling - no matter how dumb the kid was acting - should have been a serious red flag for you. This is *not* acceptable behavior from any dog that is taken out and about in public. I have a 100# GSD too, and no way would I tolerate any such behavior from him that even barely resembled this.

That said, I do applaud that fact that you are here and beginning to rethink how you handle this dog. You clearly like a him a lot and want to do the right thing. But you have had two worrying incidents already, and I would urge you to get working fast on containing, controlling and establishing serious leadership with this dog before you have another incident that potentially gets you sued and the dog destroyed as vicious. Not to be dramatic, but that could be where this is going without prompt action on your part.

And to re-state something major: You are very lucky that your neighbor did not call the police when he went into her yard, uncontrolled, and bit her. Your DOG is very lucky.

Everyone is being extremely courteous in their posts about this, and maybe you have been lulled by that.

This is serious. So is the scenario you posted now about the teenager.

And this is all, 100%, handler error. Do you think that the parents of that kid (or the judge in court) care if the kid's silly behavior "pissed you off"? Or that animal control is going to analyze your neighbor's pre-existing fear and how it might have triggered the bite?

PLEASE start reading, listening to podcasts, watching videos, and attitude-adjusting. Your dog is in danger if you do not.

You dog has bitten and you're talking about the behavior of the victims.

I want to thank you all for your input and responses. I don't think I'm quite ready to discuss all of these "issues" in quite the same way that you do....so I'll be going on my way..out the door

Thanks again....