Quote: randy allen

LOL Geoff,
Yeah yeah, that's gotta be cool to see.....A dog resource guarding a decoy......from the HANDLER!!!???? Hahahahaha Talk about an evil demon pita dog!

That being said (and laughed about), once one of those kind of dogs come into your life and they learn to respect (or is it you EARN their respect and trust?) and trust you, you'll be looking for another one just like them after they leave.......for the rest of your days.

They are indeed special.
Randy

Definitely sounds like a dog my uncle trained for police work. His name was Spooks because he was scary. He did OK with one handler but when that handler either retired or moved to a different dept. (Don't know all the story because I was pretty young at the time) a couple other handlers tried him and wouldn't have anything to do with him so my uncle took him back.

I loved that dog. Whenever we would visit I'd take him for a walk. He was very tolerant of children (more so than adults). Later I got a GSD from the same breeder with the same blood lines as Spooks. She was a pistol to train. I originally got her for PP but I still lived at home with my parents and my mom did babysitting so the PPD idea was vetoed. I didn't think I'd ever train that dog. She was headstrong and independent but she eventually turned out to be one of the best dogs I've had. Without PP training she turned out to be a great protection dog. She just knew when protection was needed and responded accordingly. she saved my mom from a home invasion robbery and she saved a little girl my mom was babysitting when a stray dog came into the yard and went for the baby. Lady went straight after it the second it went for the baby and by the time the police got there the stray had to be put down.

Interestingly when I got Lady I was reading about pack structure or at least some of the early info on pack structure. It wasn't anything like what Ed has on his videos but it did emphasize leadership in dealing with a working dog. I don't know if that's why Lady made a better family dog than Spooks would have or if it was the fact she was female with more maternal instinct or both.

Question: Is it possible for a dog to develop more dominant behavior as they mature? Molly was the most submissive dog I've ever seen when she first showed up. Lately now that she is approaching a year old she has been showing a lot more dominant behavior. When she retrieves something on the way back she runs directly into my legs almost knocking me down. She has also tried putting her head over my shoulders and pushing me down when I was on the floor cleaning the flue on the stove and other behaviors I'd expect in a dominant dog. It's more playful than anything else but it is definitely there.

 Quote: Geoff Empey

I do have one of him wearing a leprechaun hat though!

That explains A LOT !! My roots being County Galway Ireland and having St. Patrick's Day for a birthday it works for me send it on!

 Quote: Sheila Buckley

That explains A LOT !! My roots being County Galway Ireland and having St. Patrick's Day for a birthday it works for me send it on!

Here ya go .. Bet ya he can't wait to ditch the hat and chomp someone for putting him in that compromising pose that so isn't him. I giggle at this picture every time, but seeing him work is a whole different reality.

Luck o' the Irish

Aaaaaahhahaha,
Priceless.

Did someone dare take the hat off, or was it gone before the shutter closed? LOL

Randy

Great photo Geoff! You can see the devil in his eyes, yet he still manages to look cute. Bet he'd be less so up close a personal though. I hadn't heard of social aggression before. This thread has been very interesting; I love learning something new!

I'm personally not a very "dominant" type. If/when people raise their voice at me I'm usually the guy who'll try to slip through the floor. Ok enough psychoanalysis.

But seriously, dog genetic dominance was very well discussed in this thread, but what about (lack of) human dominance ?

I've got issues with my JRT I discussed in another topic several weeks ago. I personally think several of my handling mistakes are not only caused by lack of experience, but more specifically by my own insecurity and lack of self-confidence.

My dog is nowhere near a dominant dog. I'd actually describe him as "in-between". He'll totally crawl if he meets a more dominant dog, but will hump others. He's not food aggressive. However, he displays alot of insecurity and anxiety in presence of other animals. Being a JRT, he's pretty much innately nervous and has a huge prey drive. When amplified by my own anticipation of his reactions, this leads to very chaotic situations.

What's even more disturbing is that I'm still the one he minds the most. If my girlfriend gives him a command in my presence, he will turn around and look at me (unless she has something he wants). Sometimes she'll ask him something and he'll even come to me and sit, then do whatever I ask him to. Which makes me believe he doesn't totally disrespect me as a pack leader.

 Quote: Francis Daigle

If my girlfriend gives him a command in my presence, he will turn around and look at me (unless she has something he wants). Sometimes she'll ask him something and he'll even come to me and sit, then do whatever I ask him to. Which makes me believe he doesn't totally disrespect me as a pack leader.

True, but he is totally disrespecting her. He thinks he's the beta.
I'd have her correct the snot out of him, with you looking on.

This has nothing to do with the dog reading off of your personal insecure nature. It has entirely to do with pack structure. Dog's are perceptive, but not to the extent that they mimic their owners neurosis or emotional issues.

It sounds like he is a bit confused and hectic, and he needs clear pack structure.

I think you are correct about the dog being confused about your pack situation. He sounds like he loves you and wants to make you happy and have you as a pack leader, but when your ideas conflict, or there are some added stresses, he finds himself usurping that role.

I know that you posted this about how to lead your dog better, but I have found that when you improve how you relate to one part of your world, it impacts the rest as well. Besides, you might as well kill two birds with one stone!

It is hard to explain/demonstrate how to be assertive over the internet, but a few ideas…

Watch Ceasar Millan. Watch his body language and mannerisms. Forget about all of the rest of it (although his methods for leadership are correct&hellip and concentrate on emulating his body language and attitude.

Don’t second guess yourself. When you make a decision, follow through to the best of the abilities of the person you are picturing in your head (for dog stuff, Ceasar), not your abilities. You are now a leader, and leaders do things and don’t question if the pack is falling in line behind them. They expect it, and if it does not happen, they correct the pack, not their decision.

Pretend. This will take a ton of practice, but your dog will be a great audience before you start with others. Picture someone in your head that you see as strong and confident and imagine how they would behave. Strangers will not know that you are unsure. Dogs tend to wonder if the person is serious, but are “pre-programmed” to follow anyway.

Take a deep breath. Be firm in your resolve and you can change the way you communicate with your dog, and the rest of the world.

I was a shy, self conscious, reserved kid that wanted to make money. I found real estate. Intellectually, I knew what I was doing, and have a great head for the industry, but my personality was NOT going to get me clients or give them faith in me. I emulated my mother’s mannerisms (a very outgoing and successful business woman) and shocked myself at how well I fooled every stranger I met, and my leadership of my pack of four Rotts at the time changed drastically. Now I am not pretending. It has become a part of who I am, nobody would believe me if I said I was shy/insecure. They would laugh at me, but that is the secret, I am not any more. Until you feel that way yourself, don’t ever admit it, especially to dogs and children! (Opportunistic little so-n-so’s! They will take advantage in heart beat! :grin


Good luck!

Im no expert!

But I do want to let you know that I get RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY DOGS, when they even think they are going to control a situation. I immediately step into 'their zone'.
Not intimidating, just letting them know that I am the leader and to knock it off.

So far its working.

Even with having a 7 year old daughter, they seem to know their pack structure.

Kai comes after Abby - then Link after Kai.


Wishing you the best.

Thank you Jessica and Debbie. In all honesty, my relation with my dog greatly improved lately and it's mostly due to applying some of above tips.

A couple months ago, I couldn't have wrote that my dog looked at me rather than obeying my gf. That is a huge improvement at least on my end of the spectrum, but I'm aware I'll have to help my girlfriend out.

Standing right in front of him is something I'm doing more and more. While he wouldn't even look at me a couple months ago, now he sits at look at me expectingly. For some reason it seems to work better when I put my hands on my waist and frown at the dog (mimicing CM). I guess my "energy" is more assertive that way. I only do the hands on waist thing when he doesn't mind without.

I'm also making sure I control everything the dog does. For example, I used to make him sit before opening doors, but I didn't mind stairs, and he sure did rush down or up, then turn to me with this "you coming yet?" look. Now he climbs stairs slowly, besides me.

I picture dominance like Frawley ranks distractions/corrections. Just like a correction must be higher than the dog's distraction to be effective, your dominance vs the dog's dominance determines pack structure. My dog could have a level 4 dominance, and I used to be maybe level 3. Now I see myself at about level 5-6. I have to make him believe I'm level 10 and I'll have his full admiration.