Cari,

I know you are getting info from us left right and centre and its hard to remember exactly what has been said and what has been offered advice wise.

Secondly, if some posts come off the wrong way, just know it's because all of us here are worried about the pup and any anger I personally feel is towards the irresponsible breeder who let this pup go too early. Sounds like someone just out to make the bucks as quickly as he can by getting rid of the pups early so he can start the breeding process all over again (JMO!!!) I m not that informed about breeding, but I think that until the pups are weaned and the milk stops the mother won't come into heat again (is that right?)

anyhoo...

we have suggested having a surrogate dog around, but it can't just be any dog of any size. It would have to be one with the right temperment and it would never be left alone with the pup. It would only be with the pup under supervision. You don't know what the goldendoodle would do to the pup if no one was around. If the pup was stepped on and squealed the dog could see this little squirmy thing as a new toy with disasterous results. alot of dogs won't want to have anything to do with the pup.

I didn't see you mention anything about the dog being to the vet yet?
Has the dog ever been to the vet? Even if the breeder said the pup had been checked i wouldn't trust that and would get the pup there as soon as possible.

We are, by no means, saying that this pup won't grow up to be a well balanced dog. But it will take ALOT of work and devotion to help this little guy through the next few weeks until he reaches the 8 week period.
The only thing you can do is find out exactly what happens development wise with the pup for the next 4 weeks and try to mimic what the mother's role is through that time period. (does that make sense?)
No, we aren't dogs, but i applaud the effort you and your son are making to try and make sure this pup is given a fighting chance.
I think Angella's post was an excellent when she pointed out the "7 new things" a pup should be experiencing.
If a Mother-Type dog can be found to help with nurturing the pup, all the better, but if one can't be found it's all up to your son & his girlfriend.

ps...i can't remember, but does your son have a heat source in with the pup? hot water bottle or a heat lamp in one area or something along those lines? something that the pup can get some warmth from as he doesn't have any litter mates to snuggle up with.

I see he has been to the vet, good to hear he's healthy.

and on another note. Jenni did say that she reaised a pup at 4 weeks, but i do believe she also said she had other dogs with the pup at that stage to help the pup learning "doggy" behaviour.

Edited by Wendy Lefebvre (11/27/2008 07:36 AM)
Edit reason: vet

Wendy, Thank you for the information and encouragement. I also agree that Angela gave very good advice, and already told my son about everything she said and about the 7 things. Thanks Angela! I told him most of what everyone else mentioned too Although, Not the off the wall negative stuff where he deserve the mental dog that he might get. As I say this, I can understand why some (many) are upset that the breeders sold him, and my son bought him. But, my son wanted a puppy, and didn't know that being taken away at 4 wks. from the parents would be life altering for a pup.

I agree with not leaving the pup unsupervised with the goldendoodle. I think my son already decided against that, knowing the owners were both at work all day.
I talked to him last night, he thinks the pup has adjusted to his home quite nicely. The pup love to play, loves to be held. He says he's always happy when my son goes to his pen, wagging his tail, wanting to be picked up. He's in heaven with this little puppy, and is only going to do what's right. I know by the way he talks and tells me about him, he's determined to make it work for the pupppy. At the time he doesn't have a light or hot water bottle. He's set up a crate in the pen, the crate has blankets in it, and I'm assuming it's a comfortable temperature in their home. But I'll mention the light, sounds like a good idea.
Thank you!

If the house is not particularly warm, I cannot say enough about this item:

http://leerburg.com/742.htm

I have one for my arthritic senior, and the only downside is that I didn't have it for every other senior I've had.

But it's meant to supply a low warmth to baby pups.

There should be part of the pup's area/box where he can get off it so he doesn't have to be on it always.

It cannot get too hot. It's consistent at dog-body-temp (about 99 or 100 degrees F.).

It's very low -- easy to get on and off.

I missed a few days; sorry guys. Connie had asked something about "how" I'd raised 4 week old puppies, and Wendy mentioned something about my other dog(s)helping, so I'll expound in general a little bit.

I was trying to put at least a LITTLE bit of optimism in this thread. This pup could turn out as well as Simon and Xander did. I actually had both of them early. Xander was exactly 4 weeks (but I had 4 of his littermates, too, so he was only w/out Mom, not all alone) and Simon was about 5 wks, I think. The 19yr old, and Mom (lol) have some extra work, but it looks like that's being taken care of. Everyone offered good suggestions so far. As long as they stick with this, he will be better off than if he'd stayed with that "breeder."

Hold him a lot, pet him a lot. He would be in almost constant contact w/his dam or littermates if he was left w/them. Be careful picking him up-do not pick him up under his front legs ("armpits"). This can cause umbilical hernias, I hear from a loooongtime breeder. Never knew that, but it makes sense if you look at their bellies when you do this. Your son will need to be careful that the pup sees him as an authority figure and not simply a playmate, but don't worry about that for a few weeks yet. I say this b/c it's easy to raise a very young pup and forget that it's not so young anymore, and you're still treating it like an infant.

Food is not an issue; I fed both of them raw from the get-go and they had no issues whatsoever. I did throw a home-made raw mix into my food processor for Xander and crew for about a week just to make sure that inability to chew wasn't going to get in the way of nutrition. An easier (but not cheaper) way to do this would be to use a frozen raw, like Nature's Variety. Very easy for a pup to eat/digest. By 6 weeks, they were tearing apart chunks of deer. Steve Lepic actually posted a video of this.

As far as learning "doggy behavior," I honestly would worry more about him learning the WRONG KIND than the fact that he learns it. Does that make sense? In other words, IMO, he'd be better off bottle fed (not necessary-I'm just making an analogy) w/no canine interaction than left to socialize w/God-knows-what-kind-of-temperament strange dogs...like the neighbor's. If you have a good stable dog (and I mean really good-tried and true, even w/tiny pups), then by all means, allow the little one to follow and play in short intervals under close supervision. Otherwise, focus on other things. Not all dog interactin is good interaction.

Everyone is correct in their understanding that I was very fortunate to have Caleb's help. I'm sure that physically, Xander and Simon would be just as they are today if I'd raised them truly alone, but I don't know that their temperament would be as strong. Yes, temperament is genetic, but much of it is learned behaviors as well.
This is Caleb and Xander the day they met. http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Jenwilliams918/Xander/DSC03540.jpg You can see how tiny Xander is at 4 weeks. Like I said before, if the adult dog isn't truly exceptional, I wouldn't bother having him around them. I don't recommend he plays w/other pups until he's older, and then only if they're the same age/size. You don't want him to get bullied by a bigger pup who also doesn't have the mental maturity to understand that this is a tiny, fragile puppy. I am diligent about this in my own house. Simon didn't meet Xander until he was probably about 6-7 mos old. Xander simply was not old enough to behave properly toward a little pup. Caleb is much older and has been introduced to a pup as young as an hour old. He is incredible.


I have a question. Are we POSITIVE this pup is only 4 weeks old? I can't tell you how many times I've been told a pup is only 6-8 weeks, then I see the pup and it's clearly 10-12 weeks. I was told Simon was 2 weeks old. Um, I don't think so. Some people have no comprehension of what ages look/act like. Just wondering if we had an exact, for-sure birthday on this little guy or if it's possible we're worrying needlessly. :-)

Sorry so long!

Jenni, thanks for all the information on your puppies, and how well they did. I understand you had a little different situation, but hopefully his will be okay. Thanks for including how NOT to pick a puppy up to prevent a hernia. My son has the puppy papers, and is stated that he was born Oct. 23rd, My son brought him home on Nov. 21.

Connie, my son is now using a heat lamp that's placed over the puppy's pen in one area of it.

Thanks everybody for being so informative!

You're quite welcome. One less Pit Bull in a nasty situation is a good thing!

Yep-he was 29 days old...eek.

 Quote: Cari Hanson

Thanks for including how NOT to pick a puppy up to prevent a hernia. ...

Me too! I had not read this before, and it sounds like very valuable info.

Cari, I'm sure your son will do fine in taking care of and training this pup. I wish him the best of luck.

Sadly, this isn't the first time that a "breeder" has sold a litter of puppies before they are 8wks old and it certainly isn't the last.

My mom had her own experience with getting a 6.5 week old poodle puppy from a "breeder"(she chose a poodle due to her allergies). This "breeder" lives in a small town here in ND and the year before my mom bought her dog, there had been a fire at the "kennel". The people lost around 200 dogs. 200 dogs! When my mom was thinking about getting a puppy, she told me about the breeders website and how they had all kinds of different breeds there. I told my mom that it sounded like a puppy mill and that she should reconsider getting a pup from them, but she didn't listen and thought she was doing the puppy good by buying him and "saving" him from a potentially bad place. The lady had told my mom that they were still trying to get their breeding stock back up since they had lost quite a few of them. Whatever.
Well, I had to take the pup to the vet before my mom even got to see him cause he was sick with giardia(if I remember correctly) and when she emailed the couple to let them know what was going on, the husband totally flipped out and said there was no way that the pup had giardia, or that the vets office could have told us so soon(capitol city vs. small town far from city where they have to send out to get test results). My mom just wanted to be a good person and let them know, just in case any of their other dogs might have been exposed. She hasn't contacted them since then and her dog is (for the most part) a good dog(I've had to help train him and advise my mom to get the basic ob. video from leerburg). I have checked out the website since and they still have tons of dogs and puppies for sale.

I know this was long and I apologize, but I think that even a very young puppy has a good chance when put into the proper home, especially when that home is better than the original. JMO

Keleah, thanks!

 Quote: Cari Hanson

my son is now using a heat lamp that's placed over the puppy's pen in one area of it.

Thanks everybody for being so informative!

thats perfect. Remember not too high of a heat, and make sure there's an area the pup can go that isn't under the heat lamp.
Just in case he gets too hot that has blankets he can snuggle into.

Keep us updated! We love to hear how things turn out.