 Re: I caused bruising with a HS prong... Problem!!
[Re: Angela Palance ]
#252187 - 09/10/2009 06:46 PM |
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Reg: 08-30-2007
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Well Angela,
I don't know what to say. I've tried every ruse I could think of to get you to engage in a training discussion. Dry observation, pointed irony, outright scarcism, and finially straight ahead wtf. Still, all I have gotten back is some kind of mememe I'm being picked on ramble that has nothing to do with what is in question.
This is a good site to come to if one has a want or need to pick the brains of dog people.
Why be so one-way? Instead of spending all the time typing mememe's, why not just answer the question? What were all these other steps you took? Why would you think a dog strange to your handling respond quietly without a who tf are you? In fact there's alot of people here whose dog may very well take your face off trying the stunt you described.
I want to learn, so once again, please tell me (us) what did you use other than brute force?
If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy
PS.
No, I don't go looking for fights. But if you feel up to it, I'll play at that.
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Re: I caused bruising with a HS prong... Problem!!
[Re: randy allen ]
#252205 - 09/10/2009 11:57 PM |
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Some of us who are not experts follow these posts and I, as an inexperienced trainer, still would like to know what precipitated the 15 corrections. Maybe I'm just missing the point.
Was it Will Rogers who said, "If you think you are important, trying bossing someone else's dog."?
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Re: I caused bruising with a HS prong... Problem!!
[Re: Nora Ferrell ]
#252277 - 09/11/2009 06:10 PM |
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im not a trainer, but when i think of giving a dog 15 corrections (especially a dog who "knows the command"--something is wrong (very wrong).
either the dog DID NOT know whats going on, or the handler did not know how to convey the command to the dog in an understandable way.
im curious why you went all the way to 15 (or 10, or even 5) corrections without stopping to go "wait, what's the problem here, because there is a big problem".
with my own dogs, if they do not respond to a command, and it takes anything even CLOSE to 15 corrections-either i am not being clear, or the dog does not know what i am asking, and it would be HIGHLY unfair to continue to jerk a confused dog around.
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Re: I caused bruising with a HS prong... Problem!!
[Re: Nora Ferrell ]
#252279 - 09/11/2009 06:21 PM |
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Reg: 07-13-2005
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Loc: North-Central coast of California
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... Some of us who are not experts follow these posts ...
That's exactly why those on this board who are experts don't allow such a statement to stand unchallenged.
No matter what the topic was meant to be in the mind of the O.P., unexplained statements like that are not going to stand, unquestioned, on the board. If that appears to be spoiling for a fight in the mind of the O.P., well -- it's not. It's keeping bad information from being disseminated here.
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Re: I caused bruising with a HS prong... Problem!!
[Re: randy allen ]
#252289 - 09/11/2009 07:06 PM |
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Hell, both my dogs would be up the line at ME if I put 15 unfair corrections on them. In fact my female would be at me at about 3, & she's a hard but reactive dog. My male might make 5 or 6, he's a bit more tolerant but has a temper. It might take 1 time if they don't know you well. You cannot expect a dog to just keep taking it. Most dogs do have a 'sense of justice' & will react to unfair measures. At least high drive dogs do. I suspect that many lower drive dogs will take much more since there is allot of animal abuse out there, much from bad trainers.
As Randy has requested, you really need to describe what you did to justify the use of 15 corrections as a 'last resort'.
MY DOGS...MY RULES
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Re: I caused bruising with a HS prong... Problem!!
[Re: Anne Jones ]
#252295 - 09/11/2009 07:28 PM |
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.... my dogs would be up the line at ME if I put 15 unfair corrections on them. In fact my female would be at me at about 3, & she's a hard but reactive dog....
That's what I was thinking when I first read "15 corrections". My dog would have eaten me LONG before I ever got to 15.
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Re: I caused bruising with a HS prong... Problem!!
[Re: Kristel Smart ]
#252331 - 09/12/2009 10:28 AM |
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... My dog would have eaten me LONG before I ever got to 15.
As in, coming up the line in response to a load of unfair corrections?
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Re: I caused bruising with a HS prong... Problem!!
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#252340 - 09/12/2009 10:58 AM |
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Reg: 10-03-2006
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Exactly. He's high-strung and reactive, so a prong correction just winds him up further. Several in a row would have him just about out of his mind. For my particular dog, keeping the training very calm and positive as the general protocol works best. If he was in a very distracting area where he was having difficulty paying attention, it would just tell me it was a situation he wasn't ready for.
If he's acting like a jerk and needs a correction, he gets one and he responds immediately, as he should. It helps that I don't use a lot of corrections, so it's a very clear message when he DOES get corrected. I just have to be very judicious with my use of corrections if I want my dog to learn what I'm trying to teach him instead of just winding up.
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Re: I caused bruising with a HS prong... Problem!!
[Re: Kristel Smart ]
#252343 - 09/12/2009 11:39 AM |
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Reg: 03-24-2006
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After reading through this thread again, it occurred to me that the dog in the OP might not have been taught what a prong collar correction means. I spend a couple of sessions teaching a dog what a correction means and how to avoid it. I do this with a prong and I also do it with an e-collar.
To me, it's critical that a dog learn what the correction means and how to "escape" or respond to it, depending on what behavior you're training. Some people assume that a dog will intuitively understand that performing the desired behavior (or ceasing an undesirable behavior) shuts off the correction. Dogs often don't understand this and require guidance to show them how to avoid the correction.
Corrections 101, but I thought I'd mention it.
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Re: I caused bruising with a HS prong... Problem!!
[Re: Konnie Hein ]
#252346 - 09/12/2009 11:57 AM |
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To me, it's critical that a dog learn what the correction means and how to "escape" or respond to it, depending on what behavior you're training. Some people assume that a dog will intuitively understand that performing the desired behavior (or ceasing an undesirable behavior) shuts off the correction. Dogs often don't understand this and require guidance to show them how to avoid the correction.
Corrections 101, but I thought I'd mention it.
I think it was totally worth mentioning. Far too often I've seen trainers who would just correct anything that they didn't like, without giving a lot of thought as to WHY the dog was exhibiting certain behaviors. If the dog doesn't know what a correction means, it's completely ineffective.
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