I appreciate the time and concern.

first thing on the list. Yes there have been several times that I take him out in the morning before I leave and i'm feeling good because i figure if he just went he won't have any left for in the house. and then I get home and theres a pile in his "normal" place. uuugggghhhh!!!!!! nothing more frustrating!

I do understand the effects of tethering, but He follows me everywhere I go and he never goes to the bathroom in the house when i'm at home. So I think that is very unnecessary.
O.K. now, what do you mean by anticipating long-term rewards? like what?

the other thing is, the only time he makes a thing about leaving is when he is in his crate. actually i will put him in his crate about 5 mins. b4 i leave. he jsut chills in there. sits down, watches me. then after I leave (per the video I left on him) he starts to whine and bark a little. then he tries to get out, rsits down and rests, tries to get out again, lays down and rests, tries again, lays down and rests. you get the picture. If i leave him out of the crate when I leave the only bad thing is him going to the bathroom in my house. He will look out the window when i leave for a minute, walk around then lay down and sleep. I wish I could just get him to not go to the bathroom in the house when i'm not here, I would not even be worrying about a crate for him. He is full of energy when it's time for it. When it's chill time he lays down and is calm. He's great, if he would just stop going to the bathroom in the house when i'm gone.
Me and him have a great relationship. I think the trust is there. He is very obedient, he loves to please me, loves to play and be next to me no matter what. I'm not saying that as an excuse to not do, I plan on stepping up with it all with him. I jsut go over these things so that you get a full picture of what's going on.
again, thanks and I look forward to your feedback. i'm going to do some researching around these forums.

I went back to re-read and try to find out what his feeding schedule is, but I can't find anything.

Is this dog on one or two feedings a day?
And how many times a day is he pooping?
What is the feeding schedule? What times and how much does he eat? Is it the same every day??

If you don't have a crate for him right now, do you have a room that he can be confined where he can't hurt himself? A bathroom, laundry room, garage? A solid meal schedule, confinement, and vigorous exercise seems like the only solution for this problem. Maybe going down to one feeding a day until he can be trusted or at least more predictable? But confinement is the key.

You didn't elaborate more on your crating routine but it sounded like the only time the dog went in the crate is when you were going to leave. He needs to be desensitized to the crate beforehand. He should spend time in it when you are home as well so that it is not always such a bad place. Maybe feed him his meals in it as well. Let him sleep in it at night, do 5 minute mini-sessions during the day. Put him in, ignore him, do your chores, then let him out again. Make it unpredictable so he doesn't always know if you are coming or going. I think its back-to-basics on a LOT of things here.

The others suggested that you need to treat him as if he were a puppy again. It doesn't seem like you are following this advice. Give it a TRY despite your reservations. Tethering, dragging a leash, confining.... By being objective, you may be able to see a pattern that you didn't notice before. Forget everything you know about this dog and start all over again. Either way, SOMETHING has to change because with every single accident, the habit is reinforced and gets rooted in deeper.

Jessica beat me. I logged on to say that it'd be good to add this to the crating desensitizing: crate the dog and sit near the crate and read. Then let him out and you both go about your business.

But this is nothing but a TINY P.S. to everything Jessica posted.

his feeding schedule is as follows:
he gets fed at approximately 9am, after all the kids are off on their busses.

then again at approximately 6pm before i set my dinner table for us to eat.

he is let out to poop about 5x/day as follows
approx. 6:30am (wake up)
approx. 12pm (lunch time)
approx 3:30pm (kids home)
approx 7pm (after dinner)
approx 10pm(b4 i shut down the house for the night

I put approx because i do not do this on a timer but these are the about times everyday. unless i go somewhere then i let him out right b4 we go and crate him.

"If you don't have a crate for him right now, do you have a room that he can be confined where he can't hurt himself? A bathroom, laundry room, garage? A solid meal schedule, confinement, and vigorous exercise seems like the only solution for this problem. Maybe going down to one feeding a day until he can be trusted or at least more predictable? But confinement is the key."

I would love to be able to confine him but that is a horrible thing for this dog. If he is confined he will destroy. when i first got him I tried confining him because I was unsure of his house habits. I tried putting him in the bathroom. he dug up the linoleum in the bathroom in fromt of the door and i had to replace the bathroom floor. I tried confingin him to my bedroom and he destroyed the look of my beautiful shiny wood door with his scratching, he pulled a cable wire that ran under the door out of the 52 inch lcd flatscreen that was in my livingroom, he tore my pillows apart, chewed up my wood pc desk, I think the list goes on but I will stop there. That was crazy.!!! anyhow, he does bad things when confined. when not confined he is a great boy, except for now he goes to the bathroom in the house as if he never knew better.

I know this sounds crazy but as far as him in the crate he is very desensitised to it.WHEN I'M HOME. he sleeps in it. even with the top destroyed now i put him in it still at night and he sleeps there. he never whines in the crate, never barks unless something is going on in the house that excites him. When i first got him he hated the crate and would whine and bark in the crate but i did lots of training with him and he is absolutely fine in the crate when i'm home. he goes in during the day at times when i'm home. I can put him in anytime i want and he will never give a fuss. like i said even with the opening on the top he doesn't climb out of it when i'm here. even if i'm up stairs.
I'm telling you guys, this dog is just trying to reck my nerves. He is just trying to prove that hw is smarter than me and by the looks of it he has gotten me beat.!!!lol

"The others suggested that you need to treat him as if he were a puppy again. It doesn't seem like you are following this advice. Give it a TRY despite your reservations. Tethering, dragging a leash, confining.... By being objective, you may be able to see a pattern that you didn't notice before. Forget everything you know about this dog and start all over again. Either way, SOMETHING has to change because with every single accident, the habit is reinforced and gets rooted in deeper"

I hear you. I know you guys have way more experience with training than i do. I am jsut trying to weed out things that it cant be because i have all the info on the situation. Do you still think i should tether him although he follows me everywhere anyways? you are right, every accident does make it more reinforced and habitual than the last.

"Do you still think i should tether him although he follows me everywhere anyways? you are right, every accident does make it more reinforced and habitual than the last."

Yes.

I think that desensitizing needs a little more explanation. If he is fine in the crate with you at home, then you start leaving for one second and then returning and un-crating him. Then two seconds, ditto. All of this is casual and calm and short and simple. In a week you might be at 30 seconds (or 5 minutes; I don't know), returning always before he has a chance to react. Desensitizing in this case means to do it in shorter-than-reactive doses, only very very gradually increasing them.

And yes, I do think that a ton of bonding exercise and upbeat training are going to help immeasurably.

I'd just do it. I'd just start in with everything. I would not dismiss anything suggested until I had given it a serious shot.


And yes, SA is at least partially (sometimes all) a trust issue. JMO.

o.k. well heard and accepted.
I will keep you updated. Hopefully we will have bounds of success. Even if it's little by little.

thanks alot for the help, and again, i will update often.

I am so frustrated, I just don't know what to do. As much as I love this dog I just can't think of anything nice when I think of him right now. I am really at wits end. Just to be clear, this is just me venting because I have to let it out somehow and I don't want to strangle this dog. I took hime out this morning at 6:40am. he went 1 & 2. Came in and got the boys ready for school. Put Doser in the crate about 10 mins b4 it was time to go bring my 5yr old to the busstop. Went to the busstop and when i got back of course Doser was at the window and I came into my house with a horrible smell. He had some gas the previous night so I had wishfull thinking and hoped he had just let a couple out. Went to the "normal" spot and there is a huge pile of poop soaked into my carpet. I am frustrated beyond belief. I was almost in tears cleaning it up. I love him and wouldn't give him up for the world. I think of how he lived b4 he became apart of our family and I know he is in a better place. He loves our family. But I am trying everything and he is really just wearing me out. I can't keep having a urine smell in my living room and poop soaked into my carpet. I cant' keep purchasing crates and him destroying them. I am one that really hates when I see someone has a dog and they keep it outside chained up. I hate that. I have truly contemplated tying him up outside in the cold when I go somewhere. Just frustrated.
Thanks for letting me vent.

Why can't the dog go with you to wait for your child's bus to arrive?

You're thinking about YOU---you need to be thinking about your dog.

JMO

that does not take care of the problem. I cannot take him everywhere I go. If i took him w/ to the busstop then what about when I needed to go somewhere else. the problem still exists.

Whoa whoa Bounette,
Let's take a deep breath.........

Consider, it's going to take more then a few days to retrain something the dog has known and gotten away with for it's whole life. And especially something as hardwired as separation anxiety.

Here's how I'd go about it; first you have a time line via the camcorder, put the dog in the crate and walk out the backdoor. Have a cigarette and a cup of coffee (or whatever your particular vice is). Now you go back in just short of where you know he starts to lose it......reward big time (if you're too late and he's already gone, ignore him until he settles and note the time it took and shorten the away time the next trial). Later on the same thing, etc etc. But you're GRADUALLY increasing the time between the going and coming and reward.
Before you know it he'll happily wait for however many hours you want.
But you have to work at it. It doesn't happen over night.

And yeah, why can't the dog go to the bus stop?

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy