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You could train a well bred BC to do just about anything, IMO. But smart dogs require dedicated trainers (which is the same for both breeds). You make a mistake in your training and a smart dog is going to learn it faster the wrong way...

I really think before deciding on a breed, you should spend a good deal of time around both breeds to see which one really clicks with you. Volunteering with rescue is a great way to find out about the breeds -

For sure!

Thanks for helping me to better understand. Haven't seen that show, but will check it out....

 Quote: aimee pochron

Thanks for helping me to better understand. Haven't seen that show, but will check it out....

You're quite welcome.

It's an outstanding show that I recommend everyone here watch. It'll show you just how vulnerable you might actually be.

I love my Mals to pieces Definitely not a BC person at all! Do love my Cattle Dog to pieces though.

WHY...
Mals -- YAYS: high drive, huge bite drive, loving dogs, want to please (though I've met some that don't), very adaptive to all sorts of sports (my female has titled in flyball, disc, ob and herding instict, has a BH and maybe will do a SchH1 and does agility).
CONS: they are crazy!!! are often dog aggressive/play wayyy too rough for others, can be coocoo about strange things. I never recommend them to pet owners or 99% of sport folks. They can be very hard to train in that the food drive is often super low but the toy drive makes them crazy! Very reactive dog and not a problem solving type dog (for the most part).

I've met a few BCs that are nice but overall, they are wayyyy too coocoo for me! too neurotic. I've lived with many of them (never owned by me).

ACDs are a good in between. Less coocoo than a BC and less aggressive than a Mal I like owning a little from the ACD column and a little from the Mal column!!!

Do you know what type of breeding the BCs had?

The reason I'm asking is because sport lines tend to be more quirky as a rule. Well bred working dogs (USBCHA open level, a high level of farm/ranch work) tend to be very sane, thoughtful, dogs.

If you attend a USBCHA trial you'll see a lot of high drive dogs that just hang out calmly in a crate or with their person waiting for their turn to work.

Several Mal owners mentioned that they owned 2 mals, not one.

Do you folks see that as necessary for the humans and the dog's sanity (i.e., outlet for activity), or do you just collect Mals (as I would if I could)?

 Quote: Elise Bonder

CONS: they are crazy!!! are often dog aggressive/play wayyy too rough for others, can be coocoo about strange things. I never recommend them to pet owners or 99% of sport folks. They can be very hard to train in that the food drive is often super low but the toy drive makes them crazy! Very reactive dog and not a problem solving type dog (for the most part).

Although I agree with your Yays, I have to disagree with your Cons list. I think it really depends on the individual dog and the bloodline. I'm not saying the issues you brought up don't exist in Malinois, they definitely do, but they can also be avoided pretty easily.

Dog Aggression - don't like it, don't deal with it, don't own dogs with it. Not only can my dogs play together as a group all of them can also play with dogs outside of their pack, and most of them I'd have no problems taking to a dog park. When it comes to food drive, I use food for the basic training of all my dogs, I prefer it for the ability to give quick rewards and keep working, vs stop to play with a toy. Some have higher food drive then others, but none are lacking. Most of my Malinois have also been great at problem solving. A few weren't/aren't the brightest bulbs, but most of them have been very intelligent.

Elise what do you mean they are very reactive dogs? I thought Malinois were very active not reactive? I would like to know your thoughts? Thanks!

 Quote: rob abel

Several Mal owners mentioned that they owned 2 mals, not one.

Do you folks see that as necessary for the humans and the dog's sanity (i.e., outlet for activity), or do you just collect Mals (as I would if I could)?

They are like Potato Chips.. You can't have just one!!!

Honestly though, I love my first Mal Toni SOOOO much and have SOOO much fun with her that when the chance came up to bring her sister Cat home, I leaped at it. I certainly didn't bring Cat home for Toni... I brought her home because she is who she is... she brought positives to the pack.

Toni and Cat are from Cindy Rhodes' Kaiserhaus Kennel. They are EXTREMELY well bred, and it shows in everything that they do. They are not dog aggressive in any way, but highly suspicious of strange people. They warm up eventually, but it takes them some time. They have tremendous food and ball drive, so training is super easy. They learn things quicker than me... my agility instructor tells me that Toni is learning despite me (I have a shirt that says "My Malinois is Handler Impaired, but Patiently Training." I love it )

When looking at a specific breed of dog, you really need to look at the breeders. A good breeder will produce a stable and intelligent pup.

The trainer determines the outcome, however. So, no matter what breed you choose, make sure you are honest with yourself about what you can handle. Not everyone can handle a Mal or a competition Border Collie or other working dog breed. There's nothing wrong with admitting that they might be too much dog for you at a specific time... Too many good working dogs end up at shelters because their owners thought more of their training abilities than reality. (I am not making any judgement against Spencer's training ability, but just want to make a point to others that may be reading this thread and thinking about getting a high drive working dog).

Good luck Spencer, and let us know what you decide

--Kelly

 Quote: Kelly At Leerburg

 Quote: Rob Abel

Several Mal owners mentioned that they owned 2 mals, not one.

Do you folks see that as necessary for the humans and the dog's sanity (i.e., outlet for activity), or do you just collect Mals (as I would if I could)?

They are like Potato Chips.. You can't have just one!!!

Honestly though, I love my first Mal Toni SOOOO much and have SOOO much fun with her that when the chance came up to bring her sister Cat home, I leaped at it. I certainly didn't bring Cat home for Toni... I brought her home because she is who she is... she brought positives to the pack.

Toni and Cat are from Cindy Rhodes' Kaiserhaus Kennel. They are EXTREMELY well bred, and it shows in everything that they do. They are not dog aggressive in any way, but highly suspicious of strange people. They warm up eventually, but it takes them some time.

Gotcha. They sound like awesome dogs, and definitely if you have one sib and know his qualities and have a chance to get another and can do it - I would do the same.

Like all breeds, sounds like there is some significant variation within the breed. I've seen Mal on video that were so high strung they were absolutely quivering and shaking during training.

On the other side, my neighbor has an older female Mal. I have watched her grow up over the last ten years. She is one of the mellowest, most stable dogs I've ever been around (though I realize not all Mals could be described this way).