Hi Norman,
just keep asking questions and there will be someone who will give you the right answer. I don't think people understand the cultural background. I do, I grew up in the Czech Republic and I can totally relate to your circumstances. Don't get offended if people don't understand and make suggestions that are just outrageous! Unless they have lived it they have no idea! Keep listening to the podcasts if you can and read the free ebooks. There is a lot of information that will help you. Good luck, your dog is so lucky you took it in!

Lenka

I am the least knowledgeable person here I'm sure.

Regardless of what you have or have not been doing right, you sound as though you truly want to make this work or you would not have come and posted again. This forum is such a valuable tool in learning to properly train and live with your dog. I have learned so much and am so thankful for the people here. Most of what I have learned, I've read not from responses to my own posts but just siftng through other threads and watching the videos on this site.

My advice to you would be to start reading. Read Leerburgs articles on raising pups and do EVERYTHING that is suggested. Do searches in this forum on specific problems you're having. Most likely the topics will be found here. Follow all the advice and put the work in.

One of the most valuable lessons I've learned from here and from my dog is that if you want a calm, happy companion, you have to put in so much work in the beginning that it almost consumes your life, but then after a while, you start to see results and it's so exciting! Before you know it, you can start to relax a bit....and your dog starts to understand what's expected. That's how you get your perfect pet. The work bonds you together, the training turns you into a team.

Take advantage of this resource and apply the instruction to your life. If you're doing all the right things for your dog, everything else will fall into place.

When I got Ollie, he wouldn't walk on a leash, He wouldn't even make eye contact with me to begin training. I read everything I could and started working with him constantly. My day starts at 5am with him and ends at 10pm...with him. With my job and my three kids, that's no joke, but it is so worth it.

Norman>> I think posting Youtube videos of your problems and asking questions might help the experts answer you better. I live in India and conditions are no where like it is in the USA.

I think it helped me a lot when I started posting videos of my problems.

Also we would like to see how bulgaria looks.

Norman!!!!!
I am so glad that you came back!!!!!
I hope you received the private message I sent you.

I wrongly (much to my shame) assumed you were an American.
I should have known better and I apologize.

To put my first post in context, let me say that several people in this country have become quite taken with the powerful Livestock Guardian Breeds as they are known here.

Believe it or not, we have people on a regular basis post here for help with their Anatolian or what ever that is out of control and eating the couch...yes people buy these types of dogs and keep them locked up in an apartment or suburban house with no exercise or job, no training, nothing.

I figured that you were just another suburban knucklehead that bought a tough dog for no reason other than to be cool.....I stand corrected and humbled.

I hope you will be willing to listen to what I have to say.

By the way Norman your English is excellent! How come it is so good? Just good schooling?
Lenka

Finally folks......a person that should have one of these dogs!!!!!!!

In addition to livestock guardian work, these dogs were also used for another purpose...home security, and personal security (primarily form wild animals..but also from human ones)


Please listen folks....
Where Norman lives this dog is a perfect match for him......also before anyone gets judgmental....like i did.. You MUST understand that where he is living things are totally different from the daily reality for most Americans.
"Training" standards are totally different and not what we would expect here....Norman's base knowledge is not what you would take for granted as a person knowing.

Norman, for the cultural standard he lives in, has shown great gentleness and restraint in dealing with this pup...it might not seem so to some of you, but given that most pups in his area are chained as he said and beaten if they act up, he is doing great.
I applaud him for sticking around here.


Norman, I love your older dog. He was adorable!
Was that a routine that he normally did for his food?
I think the part I liked best was the pause between each "growling fit" that he did...when he froze and looked at you like.........is that enough? when is dinner? Then the look of oh..come on.....alright, I'll do it again....till he finally walks off. (Most board members are now shaking their heads, thinking I'm off my rocker....on first glance your video presents a dominant viscous animal that is about to cause problems....folks the body language is different on these guys...watch the ears and the eyes....its hard to see if you haven't been around these breeds.)
His body language and posture for his breed, speaks that he loved you dearly and enjoyed playing with you....did he have a good sense of humor with you?

OK, on to the pup......
I understand how hard and frustrating this stage is, I understand the temptation to just leave him in the hall...we bought a mini-Daschund pup for my 11 yr old daughter..we got a pet temperament one...and ended up with a hard little man eater....he had a working temperamental is every bit as much of a challenge as some of the working dogs I worked with.....one particular Malinois we had comes to mind.

He is quite the handful......we call him a land shark.....you have a land Orca.....lol

OK..my Pyr/Anatolian crosses were really hyper and mouthy when they were this age....they need to develop their combat skills at this age...its play, nap, play, nap, play.....this is a vital time for your pup to learn and develop the skills he will need to protect you in your environment.
Ours had the advantage of living with other pups....yours doesn't.
You will HAVE to be a surrogate playmate if you want this pup to develop right.

Will the Pyr play with him?

this stage will last till about 5 months or so. Then he will calm down for a few months....then it starts back up even worse till they are over a year old.

We actually had to pen our dogs away from the goats and chickens from when they were 9 months till they were 13 months...the prey drive was too high..if they had been allowed through play to kill an animal...well, once that starts they can't guard the animals any more.

Now they are great even with young chickens...that's the hardest to get them safe with...poultry.
When they were 13 months old, we put them in with the big male goats...with the horns......that taught them not to mess with the goats....lol...then they went in with the donkeys.......the guardian donkeys.......lol that finished the job.

They are 2 years old now and are great and calm...just what your older guy was, and will lie down for hours at a time.

I'm sorry I'm going on for so long, there is so much information to tell you though.
Next post I will go over the steps that I think you should go through.........

But first, I want you to understand that you are not going to force this dog to do anything. That is not in their temperament.
These dogs are not too trainable.....they have been bred to INSTINCTUALLY do their thing.....they were supposed to do it without human interaction. They were usually fitted with an outward facing spiked collar and turned out with the sheep or goats on a mountain top and had to protect the animals and fend for themselves.......when guarding the home, there was one rule...kill the stranger.....in those days a stranger was an enemy......they are a lot like wolves in the level of instinct they have.
You can't train a wolf not to be a wolf...that is what makes them such bad modern day "pets"...its the same with these guys.

My service dog is the male Pyr/Anatolian cross....the Pyr really waters down the Aggression and level of intensity, but it is still there to an extent.
I don't make him do anything. If I try to it doesn't go well.
He will not be contained in a crate...he takes it apart. He will not be contained in a room...he takes it apart. He will not be contained in a field...he either jumps the 4ft gate, digs under, or rips a hole in the heavy wire fence....(electric shock collar underground fence does work......most of the time)

When I need to shave his belly or clip his feet, I tried to do it...he didn't want me to ...I had my large husband hold him down....he could barely do it.....the nest time I was alone, and I asked him to please lie down...he did....I started to clip him..he got up to go.
I grabbed his cheeks and looked him in the eye and said "please...I really need to do this"....he lay still looking in my eyes the whole time.
Next time we try, my son tries to pin him down...he starts fighting and tosses the son...I said..wait..just ask....we did and he lay still.

The point is that the methods you are used to and I was are methods that use force.....when he is a puppy you might get away with this...but when he is bigger......there will come a point that they just take over if you haven't built the right to ask/tell them.....
Your old guy did all those things because you had earned the right in his mind to be the leader. You didn't do that By forcing him to do things or being rough handed.

You did it by being a fair leader, and providing for him.....that is proven by your video of his "Vicious act" and the quiet play growles he was doing....no way would he have performed so long for you for the camera if you weren't his leader in his mind.


So I will tell you how to get there with the hyper annoying chewy pup you have now!!!
You can do it...it will be work, but you can do it.

First you will need to train him to follow you on a leash.
He's a baby, so give him lots of leeway.
You should read all these articles and the E-Books that ED wrote before you do anything.

http://leerburg.com/articles.htm#PupSect


On the article page there are articles about marker training.
Also on the streaming video page there are videos on marker training.

Your pup will have a short attention span, and get bored quickly...better to have lots of short sessions than a few long ones.
Also tug is going to be great to train him with, but you won't be able to do this when he is teething.

So read all the articles, train him to the leash using marker training..(these breeds are great for this type of training...it was developed to use on large animals that no one was going to force to do anything...orcas, elephants, dolphins...)

In the mean time to keep him busy, get some fox or other small predator scent....you can often get this at a hunting store....and put some on a leather rag.
Here I use fox, raccoon, and coyote scent for the rag.
Ours are guardians, and so when they get old enough to protect the flock and kill predators..I want them to associate the scent with tugging ripping and generally tearing and play..then just the scent gets them in the right frame of mind to "take care of business."
I would use the scent of anything you might encounter on your walks that would threaten you or him.
He is bred to hunt and kill and protect...he WILL do this....you might as well teach him what his target is...or he will make up his own target......
Tie the rag securely to a thin rope, and tie the rope to a sturdy stick. Make two.

This is called a flirt pole...now stand in one place and let him chase it as you tease him with it.......just when you think he will pop let him have it...let him tug it out of your hands..don't resist too much at this point and praise him as he carries it about.

Now pick up the other one and tease him with it till he drops the first one......repeat till he is good and tired.

They love to tug and play this game, but they tire fast.
put him up for a nap and repeat when he wakes up.

This will burn off energy till you get him marker trained to the leash.

He is young, and so won't be able to go for long walks without hurting his joints......sigh...so that means lots of little ones.

You can also hide the rag in plain site at first....then in harder to find locations as time goes on.

Also using marker training, you can train him to sit, lie down, anything you want...just keep the sessions short....5-7 min.

Lots of sessions.

Using the pole and rag will help with the mouthing your hands...just remember that the chewing and "attacking" are vital to him becoming the dog you want.

That should keep you busy...please don't hesitate to ask me any questions.
Willie