Quote: connie sutherland

 Quote: jeannie oakley

.... my dog loves the lazer light. I don't really care the "horrible" effects it may have.

Well, that wraps it up for me.

"I don't really care .... "


I logged on to respond to the initial comment by providing links to the many books and web sites that give warnings about playing with dogs with flashlights and (especially) laser lights, but I now see it wasn't lack of information that was the problem.

It was "I don't really care ... "

So few words, that can say so much. I am very sad for this dog.

 Quote: connie sutherland

It was "I don't really care ... "

What struck me when I read that comment was if a supposedly "professional" trainer doesn't care about the safety/health of her OWN dog - why would anyone trust their dog's health and safety to that person?

And this is what is so sad and frightening about the plethora of people posing as knowledgeable trainers - the vast majority of people looking for a trainer have no idea what distinguishes a good one or bad one. Which really takes us right back to why it IS so important to have all of the titles, etc... which Will stresses EVERY time this topic comes up. It isn't to be arrogant or an ego trip - it is to allow the consumer a reliable measure of how to select someone with the knowledge to train the dog and owner as well as someone who does CARE about the health of the dogs in their care.

Maybe if there is a book available for trainers to read on the dangers of laser lights...

Personally, I would never waste my time with any "trainer" that utters the words "I don't care" in regard to ANY dog. How would I know that this attitude would not be applied to MY dog? I CARE.

But then, I have only learned from some unknown trainers like Ed Frawley, Cindy Rhodes, and Michael Ellis. Hey, what the heck do they know, right??

I worked for Ed and Cindy for over 7 years. I never heard those words come out of their mouths about any dog. EVER. And the great thing about them is, I know I never will hear those words. They care.

The vast majority of the people on this forum also care. Not all of us are trainers. Most of us just work with our own dogs and make sure they are well trained and healthy. We share our experiences, but for the hard core training questions we defer to the experts like Will.

I consider Will a good friend. He may have a gruff exterior, but he's got a heart of gold. He cares about the dogs and owners that have some problems. He tries to educate people new to dog ownership so that they don't end up hurting their dog by exposing it to a bad "trainer." Will has been around and has pretty much seen it all. I would take his advice over that of most others.

Just my opinion, of course.

 Quote: kelly

I consider Will a good friend. He may have a gruff exterior, but he's got a heart of gold. He cares about the dogs and owners that have some problems. He tries to educate people new to dog ownership so that they don't end up hurting their dog by exposing it to a bad "trainer." Will has been around and has pretty much seen it all. I would take his advice over that of most others.

Just my opinion, of course.

I would have to agree that he DOES have a lot of knowledge in most ALL situations. However I just about turned off any advice due to him being rude. I, as a new person would have no clue to how educated he was in any area. I would just assume him as someone that thinks a lot of himself. I know now after looking up other posts that he is VERY knowledgeable however a new person on here could really take his advice the wrong way because of the way it is put.
Most people come here to learn, as did I, and not to be called stupid by someone they don't know anything about.

 Quote: Jeannie Oakley

Just the fact that you BLEW my first post apart tells me, no matter WHAT your credentials are, you have a sick sense of HIGH HORSE syndrome. Really, this board spends more times attacking others than actually helping owners.

I have to protest to this. I came to this board knowing slim to nil about dogs or how to train them. It is directly due to the articles on this site, the people on this forum and Ed's excellent videos that I was able to train my shelter dog to be a trusted and adored member of our family. Will is direct and emphatic, but he has never been high-handed or rude to anyone genuinely seeking help. If this is the only thread you've ever read on here, and you came in defensive and guns a-blazin', you certainly don't have the whole picture.

The one thing people here will not tolerate is bad advice about training dogs. Those of us who come to learn appreciate this immensely.

http://www.aolhealth.com/2010/09/09/doctors-laser-pointers-pose-threat-to-eye-health/?icid=main%7Cmain%7Cdl3%7Csec3_lnk1%7C169784

Jeannie please read this. If it was not for this forum I would have had to give up both my dogs. Completely agree with Becca.

 Quote: barbara schuler

.... Maybe if there is a book available for trainers to read on the dangers of laser lights...

Here ya go. First book I pulled off the shelf: Handbook of Applied Dog
Behavior and Training, Volume 1: Adaptation and Learning, By Steven R. Lindsay

http://leerburg.com/952.htm

Page 251:

" .... the origins of such compulsions ... often traced to .... games involving flashlights or laser pointers."

This three-volume work, twenty-five years in the making, has been hailed by experts in the field.

"The most valuable publication about dogs since Scott and Fuller's classic text, Genetics and the Social Behavior of the Dog, published in 1965," said V. L. Voith, the president of the American Vetirinary Society of Animal Behavior.

"The objective of giving a scientific account of all aspects of learning in dogs has been accomplished to a very high degree. ... No other comparable scientific texts are available," said A. Luescher, the director of the Animal Behavior Clinic at Purdue University's School of Veterinary Medicine.

Great Connie! Perhaps in the future it will also be listed on Jeannie's "Books I've Read" column. And I don't mean that in a mean spirited way - hopefully it will be read.

 Quote: barbara schuler

.... Perhaps in the future it will also be listed on Jeannie's "Books I've Read" column. And I don't mean that in a mean spirited way - hopefully it will be read.

They are the "Bible" on my dog-book shelves.

I've always been grateful for Bob Scott's post urging that board members consider this great set of books --- and for his suggestion about "LB gift certificate hints" around holidays and birthdays.

Took me a while to acquire the set, but it was so worth it ....

And Volume III, Procedures and Protocols, is just amazing. In it, he uses the science to provide the "how to," from aggression to fears to housetraining to marker training .... well, there's no way to give even an overview here.

Anyway, it's getting O.T.

What I do hope is that readers here will come away with an idea of the potential damage that can accrue from "I don't care." I don't care what the real experts say -- if I want to do it, I'm doing it.

Whether it was meant in earnest or a defensive reaction (and I guess that a caption on the web site saying "Sheena is 4 yrs. old and her
favorite toy is the lazer light" pretty much makes it the former), I hope that the laser light "toy" stuff will be removed from the site.

Her dog, her decision ... but it's not OK to leave it there for unsuspecting owners who may have no idea of the inadvisability of using them as "toys."

JMO, of course.

Well,
Has the matter of nuetering for aggression been resolved yet? At least for the op.

Too many dogs in the world is as good a reason as any I suppose, but for aggression? Towards humans? Learned aggression? Fear inducted aggression? Anybody think spaying will take care of any of this?
Or is anyone of the same mind as our newest best pro has suggested, it should just be done on general principle.