Quote: daryl bernal

yay she pooed!it was only a little and kind of "soft" but formed. with other dogs i've had i fed kibbble and its soft compared to that but normal from what i've seen thus far on raw.

The "normal" poops you've had feeding raw are softer than kibble poop? Most raw fed dogs have quite firm small poops.

Yes, let's go back and talk about the meal size and the meal makeup. I'm suspecting overfeeding or not enough bone, and with a growing puppy these are things to get
right.

We can help.

Did I read 10% of body weight here somewhere? That's the highest end of puppy quantity, so there's plenty of room to back off that amount.

Overfeeding is the first most common pudding-poop trigger in new-to-raw dogs (second being too much organ meat or unaccustomed red meat at once), so I betcha that will be the culprit here. Still, let's make sure the bone content is OK too.

her diet at the beginning was chicken thighs, then drumsticks, then went to whole young chickens and cut them up for meals. i am bagging and freezing what i got the other day, and the weight of each meal per day is about a pound and a half. these are mostly chicken necks with about 3-5oz of liver and heart (chicken). i am going to start with small bits of the organs per meal gradually adding more...up to the 3-5oz per bag per day. yes i did read somewhere for puppies 10% is good. i was guessing her weight at first at about 15lb. from the 13 she was at when i got her a checkup when i got her. about half poound 3x a day. got her shots last week and i put her on the scale they had and she was 21lb+ i thought 2 lbs. a day was a little much so i stayed at about half pound 3x a day. tomorrow i am starting her on the bags of necks, liver, and heart i made up earlier. thsi is pretty much what she has had since starting the diet...other than the cow heart that started the issue. hope this cleared up any questions and can give you a better idea in which direction to send me and if im doing anything wrong...

p.s.
this is aside from the treats she gets throughout the day. never measured how much i actually give her but i wouldn't say it comes close to make up a meal.

Daryl, do you have a scale? Even a postage scale? For a puppy of this age, we need the amount per meal (or per day) of RMBs and the amount per meal (or per day) of muscle meat and the amount per meal (or per day) of organ meat.

Cow heart would be only a small part of a meal since it has no bone.

With regard to the poop, yes, the cow heart would trigger the surprise pudding, but I suspect we are seeing overfeeding at every meal. You should not be seeing softer poop on raw than on kibble.

So tell us the breakdown in ounces of each meal and we can gauge whether (at 21 pounds) it's right. Easily fixed.

For a puppy this age, it's very important to feed the right amount of each component so those growing bones and teeth have all they need.



eta
I'm not seeing fish oil and E or any mooshed produce. I would hold off on additions now, though, including the liver, until we can sort out the pudding poop. Should take only a couple of days.

Also, what are the training treats? Bits of cooked meat? Or tiny commercial ones, maybe?

Edited by Connie Sutherland (03/13/2011 11:57 AM)
Edit reason: eta

i do have a scale...many actually...and got one just for her when i started raw feeding. all the weight of her meals was given in my last post. 1 and a half pounds is eequal to 24oz. fed three times a day...half pound, 8oz. per feeding. as stated earlier...for the make-up of the meal for the whole day 3-5oz are chicken liver and/or heart, the rest...21-19oz... is chicken neck. this is what she ate this morning. when she started it was just the chicken thigh, drumstick ect. making up her meal. i just added the neck, liver, and heart when i found the butcher. about the "soft" poo i meantioned her having earlier...soft i guess was the wrong word. maybe wetter, slimier...idk, but soft wasnt the right word. i took her out...after feeding a normal meal...this morning and looked at her old dumpings and they are all considerably smaller, harder or firmer, and kinda crumbly after a while. her poo this morning was totally normal. clumps together in a log i guess you would say, and she had gone twice. as for the treats, im using cloud star buddy biscts. says all natural ingredients, low fat, corn free, and chicken is listed first on the ingredients, they're shaped like little gingerbread men. there is also another treat mixed in, not sure what they are, i threw the bag when i mixed them. they are similar in make up as these treats and i think ed showed them in his food dvd. lastly small chunks of natural balance dog food logs. hope that answers everything.....fish oil, E, produce? how much how often?

Cloud Star Chewy Tricky Trainers Dog Treats

Bite size, perfect for training
Soft texture makes them ideal for small or older dogs
Irresistible, great for finicky eaters
Low fat & low calorie
Wheat, corn & soy free
Great to use with treat-dispensing toys......the other treat im giving her

Buddy Biscuits Natural Soft & Chewy Dog Treats

Great for all dogs, even those with allergies or sensitivities
Highly palatable & easy to chew
Perfect for older dogs
No artificial colors, flavors, or preservatives
Free of corn, soy, propylene glycol, BHA, and BHT
Made in the USA.....the treat shaped like genger bread men


Natural Balance Dog Food Rolls Lamb Formula

Wholesome, meaty, and convenient
Fortified with essential vitamins and minerals
Scientifically formulated by veterinarians and animal nutritionists
Contains only premium ingredients

"24oz. fed three times a day...half pound, 8oz. per feeding. as stated earlier...for the make-up of the meal for the whole day 3-5oz are chicken liver and/or heart, the rest...21-19oz... is chicken neck. "


OK, I see 3 to 5 ounces of heart combined with liver, and the rest, totaling 24 ounces a day, is necks.

Maybe a tad high in amount.

But also low in variety. The variety is added gradually, one item in small amounts per day, with a poop check after each.

Have you seen LB suggested diets or the lists here of what folks include?

I'd want to add the fish oil (at her weight, 2 grams, or 2 1000 mg gelcaps) and a small natural vitamin E (100 or 200 IU).

I'd want to start incorporating variety in muscle meat, some unsweetened unflavored yogurt, a little produce ....



I think that other folks will chime in here (although Sunday can be slow here).

I gotta run to the training field, but will be back. Let us know how the poop is going!

will do...im about to head out to a park myself.

I'll admit that I got a little lost there for a second, Daryl. I'll try to keep up.:smile:

How are things going with the puppy?

athena is doing much better. back to regular feeding, chicken necks hearts and liver. i know i need variety but want to make sure all is good before adding anything. poop is normal compact little clumps 2-4 times a day. an earlier post said i needed fish oil and mooshed produce...any idea how much and how often?

i am going to add beef slowly on the 18th (a week after it all started). should i use the heart just 1oz cow heart to 7oz chicken neck...?