Quote: lynne barrows

... If you want to start working on door behavior, enlist the help of a friend and set up a scenario where the friend knocks at the door, gently, one or two times (but doesn't come in). When the dog runs to the door, block him from reaching it and wait until he calms down. Don't give him any commands, just wait him out. Once he's calm(er) click and reward. Do this several times for a week, or until he can remain calm once he reaches the door. When he can remain calm, you can work on giving him a command when he reaches the door, like 'sit', a few feet from the door.

When you are not working on this scenario and someone knocks on the door, clip the leash to him and gently lead him to his crate. Don't expect this dog to be less reactive at the door without a lot of work on your part.

I just want to say that this doorbell behavior is important to work on as Lynne is outlining -- not at the time when someone is actually there, waiting (but yep, I calmly say "Hang on!" -- the dog comes first and you don't want to open the door until you are ready and calm). It takes practice, and you will want to enlist some help (the "visitors," but it will do wonders over time. In a few months, you can be miles ahead of where you are now.

 Quote: anne jones

 Quote: kelly byrd

But WHY do you need to bother a dog while he's eating? I'm sure I could take away my dogs food mid-bite... but I don't. Feed the dog, and leave him alone.

A big DITTO to this.

You are creating the problem. Give the dog his meal & let him be.

Another huge ditto. A quick search will tell you that the majority of posts advising about this lean heavily toward "You gave the food; now it's HIS. Leave him alone."

Active in rescue, rehab, and "problem" dog rehab, I can say wholeheartedly that many of the food-guarding problems we read about were either created or exacerbated by what I think is the misguided notion that we somehow prove our "alpha" position by messing with the dog's food after we give it to him.

In my present pack are two ex-food guarders. Just like every other food-guarding dog I've adopted, these guys have zero food aggression now. They learned that their food is safe. They know that I will not allow another dog in the house to approach or hover or even gaze longingly at their food. They know that if I gave it, it's now theirs.

Now I can fish the food back out of an ex-guarder's mouth if I have to, pick up the bowl if for some strange reason I have to, or whatever I want. (I STILL say that my no-longer-guarders have the right to expect that what I have given them to eat is safe, under my protection, however. It's pretty unusual that I will do anything after giving it besides perhaps adding a bit of "dessert" meat occasionally when the dog is hopefully licking the outside and the underneath.)

If there are kids around or other dogs and you don't want to police feeding time, you can easily feed in the crate.

This for me is part of the bond I want to forge between the dog and me: My presence, my pack leadership, ensures that there is no uneasiness, ever, over food I've given. This is what I want the dog to perceive.

JMO!



eta
I'm not saying that this is a universal opinion. It's not. But you are in a pick-your-battles position right now. Why make food one of them when it's so simple to make it a non-issue? If at some later time when he's pretty much perfect you want to come back to it, you can! And if you have been marker-training, and teaching the dog that the doorbell is a safe thing because YOU deem it safe, and that he needs to look only to you for his appropriate cue about reactions to triggers, that he is safe with you and that you are the reliable leader ... I'll betcha food will have already, all on its own, receded way into the background as an anxiety issue for him.


Edited by Connie Sutherland (05/02/2011 08:10 PM)
Edit reason: eta

The door problem will get better as you work with him if you are consistent. Your leadership, the dogs trust in you and your relationship play a big part in that, too. As you work with him on everything it will fall into place.

Training specifics scenarios doesn't work as well when there is something lacking in the over all relationship. Work on his obedience and his trust in you through training, remain consistent in your rules and have him know he is always safe and that he doesn't have a thing in the world to worry about or control. Groundwork up.

Then the specific scenarios that you train for will start to progress. I'm not telling you not to work on the doorbell issue, definitely do. Lynne gave you wonderful suggestions. It will never be a waste of time to work with the dog.

Expect to see progress in those specific situations as everything else comes together.

 Quote: Lauren Jeffery

... Training specifics scenarios doesn't work as well when there is something lacking in the over all relationship. Work on his obedience and his trust in you through training, remain consistent in your rules and have him know he is always safe and that he doesn't have a thing in the world to worry about or control. Groundwork up. ... Expect to see progress in those specific situations as everything else comes together.

What a great way to say that!

 Quote: SamanthaTopper

... I don't allow strangers to try taking things from my dogs ....

Absolutely, and a good point!

Actually, it should not even come up. JMO!

 Quote: Kelly Byrd

But WHY do you need to bother a dog while he's eating? I'm sure I could take away my dogs food mid-bite... but I don't. Feed the dog, and leave him alone.

So let's say Fido finds out that trying to chew apart that bottle of antifreeze is the best thing ever, but you 'think' you can take it away from him and leave the scene with puncture wounds in your face, arms, legs, or all three because you never set boundaries with your dog.

And on top of that, because your dog was too busy teaching you a lesson about taking his stuff, you now have a vet bill because he still ingested some of the poison.

Kind of extreme, but I like knowing for sure what my dogs' thresholds are, and that we've already established boundaries on appropriate behavior. I don't mind putting in the little bit of extra work to hand feed and do fun games to reinforce that I can do whatever I want because it's all MINE and I'm LETTING them have it. I've found that it actually strengthens the bond between us. Is that so bad?

I think hand feeding a dog is TOTALLY different then taking something out of his mouth/take his bowl away.

Koenig has had many many meals fed kibble by kibble as we train. I've got him to spit food out of his mouth when he sneaks before he's released to eat. (funniest thing EVER!)

We have a reliable OUT command, with toys, bones, and random objects. I have no desire to take food away from him. I could. I don't, because as others have said, I feel I'm BUILDING trust by giving it to him, and leaving him the heck alone. It's his time, it's his food now, enjoy it without a worry of me, the other dog, or the kids.

Honestly, I've slipped up on my supervision before, and have caught kids reaching into his food bowl. He didn't care. He's never had a reason to guard food, and I personally think it's because he's never had it taken away.

There are lots of other ways to set absolute boundaries with your dog while leaving feeding time undisturbed.

 Quote: samanthatopper

 Quote: kelly byrd

But WHY do you need to bother a dog while he's eating? I'm sure I could take away my dogs food mid-bite... but I don't. Feed the dog, and leave him alone.

So let's say Fido finds out that trying to chew apart that bottle of antifreeze is the best thing ever, but you 'think' you can take it away from him and leave the scene with puncture wounds in your face, arms, legs, or all three because you never set boundaries with your dog.

And on top of that, because your dog was too busy teaching you a lesson about taking his stuff, you now have a vet bill because he still ingested some of the poison.

Kind of extreme, but I like knowing for sure what my dogs' thresholds are, and that we've already established boundaries on appropriate behavior. I don't mind putting in the little bit of extra work to hand feed and do fun games to reinforce that I can do whatever I want because it's all MINE and I'm LETTING them have it. I've found that it actually strengthens the bond between us. Is that so bad?

I feel like we are having two kinda-related discussions.

"Drop it" and "leave it" are SOLID in my house.

Hand feeding is GREAT!

"So let's say Fido finds out that trying to chew apart that bottle of antifreeze is the best thing ever, but you 'think' you can take it away from him and leave the scene with puncture wounds in your face, arms, legs, or all three because you never set boundaries with your dog.

And on top of that, because your dog was too busy teaching you a lesson about taking his stuff, you now have a vet bill because he still ingested some of the poison."


None of this is what I was talking about. I was talking about teaching the dog that the food I give him is his.

We really are kind of having different conversations, I think.

Not the first time it's happened here.

 Quote: kelly byrd

I think hand feeding a dog is TOTALLY different then taking something out of his mouth/take his bowl away.

Koenig has had many many meals fed kibble by kibble as we train. I've got him to spit food out of his mouth when he sneaks before he's released to eat. (funniest thing EVER!)

We have a reliable OUT command, with toys, bones, and random objects. I have no desire to take food away from him. I could. I don't, because as others have said, I feel I'm BUILDING trust by giving it to him, and leaving him the heck alone. It's his time, it's his food now, enjoy it without a worry of me, the other dog, or the kids.

Honestly, I've slipped up on my supervision before, and have caught kids reaching into his food bowl. He didn't care. He's never had a reason to guard food, and I personally think it's because he's never had it taken away.

There are lots of other ways to set absolute boundaries with your dog while leaving feeding time undisturbed.

This is the one I thought we were having. The O.P. will get to a bulletproof "leave it," too. But for me, it's unrelated to the food-guarding that I believe she can dial WAY back by letting the dog enjoy the food she gives him in peace.

As I said, it's not universal .....

 Quote: connie sutherland

The O.P. will get to a bulletproof "leave it," too. But for me, it's unrelated to the food-guarding that I believe she can dial WAY back by letting the dog enjoy the food she gives him in peace.

Agreed Connie! I'd be pissed if someone took food out from under my face, even if they gave it back.