Geri, when you have a chance, I'd love an update on how the dog is doing.

You have a lot going on in a short time span, sounds like, and a derm vet who does things in perhaps a more rapid (and different) order than I'm familiar with.

The dog is already on a powerful immunosuppressant, one that I've not seen used as a first line of treatment, and one which I'm sure you both agreed needs to be used extremely carefully; I'm hoping the results are very good.

Last night, thinking about this dog, i thought maybe a consult with a holistic vet, as you suggested (in addition, I mean), might be really useful. Again, it should be a derm/allergy specialist.

Also, I'm familiar with all the simpler (and IMO important) steps being done while any harsher methods are trialed, but of course your dog may have been in terrible shape when you consulted, so it's definitely not for me to critique. It wouldn't be, anyway, because I'm not a health professional.

However, I feel strongly (from multiple experiences) about doing as much as possible to mechanically, physically, minimize the dog's exposure to the worst of his allergens.

How strong was his reaction to the flea saliva reagent in the intradermal, BTW? I remember his classic flea behavior and would be very interested in what level of results that reagent generated.



PS
Isn't this dog a hundred pounds? That 2000 mg of fish oil is bothering me. Unless .... what did the 2000 mean? Didn't he used to be on 4 pumps of Grizzly a day?



ETA
I'm just trying to make sure nothing is overlooked .... I've learned how important using (or at least trying) every tool is, and not overlooking the most basic ones. Not trying to criticize! Not at all.

Connie

I'm going to call Derm Vet Mon and have them send me all those results of the tests. When I recd those, I have more answwers to your questions. Believe me I do not think for a minute you are criticizing. I can not thank everyone, especially you, enough for all the help on this. I should have done this a long time ago. Guess I did not realize how serious it can get.

Thanks Geri

Hi Geri,
Sorry you are having so much trouble with all this allergy stuff - I can relate. We have been going to a derma vet with our golden for 4 years or so now and have loved her. She is very conservative on her treatments even though Kasey was allergic to 43 of the 75 things she skin tested for. Atopica is her very last line of defense because it does suppress the dog's immune system. It takes at least a month to see if it's going to work also. I'm just a little suprised that she started with that, and then said after a month they may start the allergy shots? Usually you do that the opposite way around because the shots are so easier on the dog's system. I would really question her on that and see what her thinking is, asking her why choose that over trying the shots with low dose (every 3 days) steroid and daily antihistimines. Just a thought!

Geri, what Lori has said is what I was beating around the bush about.

I know that we don't know the thinking behind this protocol, and neither one of us is criticizing ..... just wondering why such an unusual (I think) order was selected.

And again, why I'm not seeing any emphasis on working to avoid the worst of his allergens .... although of course all I have to go by is what's posted.

Lori, thank you for posting. I was hoping you'd see the thread and jump in.

Ladies,

I think the derm vet took this route as we have been doing the steroids off and on and daily antihistimines since Dec. 2011.
Things would get better for awhile and then around May he started getting real bad. He was in pretty bad shape by the time I got him to the Derm Vet with fungus and infection also. So I think she wanted to be aggressive since the other way was not helping. Just my thoughts.
I will call today and have them send me the results of the tests so I can post them.
Thanks for your time on this.
Geri

This does help clarify some things, Geri.

How is he doing?

Connie,

I though I would answer some of your questions b4 I get the report back from the Derm Vet on specific allergens.

He is finally getting relief. Not as much itching. Gave him a good bath yesterday with malaseb shampoo and a leave on conditioner of resicort. (need to do this every 2 weeks. ) Then apply advantix II .

He is taking salmon oil from Only Natural Pet (I usually do use Grizzly but I was ordering other things at the time and just went with their brand) It says 50 lbs and up, 1 1/2 tsp contains 1350 mgs of omega 3's. But I have been giving him around 4 teaspoons a day. He is around 105lbs. I will be going back to Grizzly and wondering what is the best amount for him. ? Read one person is giving 3 times the amount recommended.

Thank you for the info on Atopica. Very informative.
I really thought that getting him on Atopica at this point was the best thing for him. I hope not for long.

He is getting 2 teaspoons a day of bone meal to 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 lb chicken a day. Is that about right?

I'm going to hold off on the elimination diet for now as I feel we have enough going on.

I could not find any Holistic Derm Vet in my area. So I'm going to give the Holistic vet I had recommended to me a try.

I did find some other info on a few of the papers the derm vet gave me that might give some more insight to the problems we having.
Clinical findings/diagnostics
mild flaking and partial alopecia on lumbar area: papule on ventral abdomen and inguinal area:
erythema of bentral interdigital areas: deep skin scraping for mites is Neg. Skin cytology shows cocci, rods, and few yeast: intradermal testing showed multipls positives for insets and pollens (I do not know what cocci and rods are.)
He is allergic to flea and mosquito bites. He has multiple pollen allergies and will do vaccines for long term contol of pollen.
The paper I do not have yet, has the specific pollens that he is allergic to. Which seemed to be everything in Florida. I'll have that in a few days.
BTW, Have you hear of Clemastine for itching.? An antihistamine. That is one I never used.

Thanks again. You guys are angels. I feel like there is some hope now that I have such wonderful support.
I was very discouraged at first.

Geri

This is partly a bump, because today escaped from me, but also wanted to clarify to you about this: "I though I would answer some of your questions b4 I get the report back from the Derm Vet on specific allergens" that what we are looking for is also which are his worst.

Hypothetically (because we have no idea): it's potentially important if he has 40 level-one reactions and 3 level-fours. This is major info about what he needs most to have removed from his space (or vice versa) as much as possible, if it's in his space.

Unless he has 43 level-twos, then "The paper I do not have yet, has the specific pollens that he is allergic to. Which seemed to be everything in Florida" is not just a shopping list of allergens ..... it's also a guide as to what is giving him the most trouble, IF, say, it's a level-four AND you find out it's in your area (and when, and how). This is kinda what I meant by the research and the plan. Getting as many of his worst allergens away from him as possible is a major goal.

Can this be scanned by the vet and emailed to you?

And .... bump.

Geri, Clemestine is the generic for Tavist. It's an over the counter antihistimine. I do use it sometimes - I use Chlorpheniramine (which is a generic for Chlor-Trimeton) and sometimes switch to the Clemestine for a few weeks just for a break from the other.

A lot of people swear by Hydroxyzine. It's an RX antihistamine and it's not cheap. My derma vet said she's found in her patients, that it's not really any more effective than some of the other OTC ones. What makes them more effective, is knowing how much you can give them. If you go to a regular vet, they will give you the bottom end dosing instructions, and that amount never helped Kasey. But when you go to a derma vet, you get the therapeutic dose and often times that makes a big difference. I don't like giving him these drugs all the time, but the antihistamines are better than steroids!

Here's a good chart on dog antihistamines and their generic and brand names
http://communityvet.net/2009/07/diy-antihistamines/

Also, the benefit from various antihistamines is highly individual. My current allergic dog benefits most from Hydroxyzine (after 5 2-week trials of various antihistamines).

Chlorpheniramine and Hydroxyzine have been my most successful, but again, it's completely individual.

According to a study out of (as I recall) Tufts (although U of Georgia Vet is a possibility, too; I've posted it so many times I can't believe I'm not sure which right now), only about 30% of allergic dogs benefit significantly from antihistamines, but the number increases if they are used in conjunction with long-chain Omega 3s (fish oil).

Trials are in order. I would not just try one and then give up.