Quote: Mara Jessup

Quite frankly, the simplest thing is to give her something else that is high value to focus on. A bone or stuffed frozen kong.

If that works, then the next step is to ask for an incompatible behavior when you see her *think* about licking. A sit or go to mat perhaps. Or teach her to bring you a food toy to fill. Then reward it and go get a bone or kong.

If that approach doesn't work, it's likely to be some sort of OCD. That needs a more clinical approach.

If it does, then your issue is almost solved. When she has an alternative behavior solid, add in a verbal correction if needed. Or just continue to redirect to what you want. My dogs pretty quickly learn to redirect themselves.

Glad to see we agree here, as this is the point I've been trying to make all along (not so clearly I guess)

 Quote: Candi Campbell

Bottom Line: It doesn't MATTER why -- This is a dog training lesson not a "philosophy class" study session ... Doggie is licking you non-stop because it WANTS to do so, that's all

MY POINT was that IT DOES MATTER WHY

Perhaps I was not clear????

 Quote: Kelly

 Quote: Candi Campbell

Bottom Line: It doesn't MATTER why -- This is a dog training lesson not a "philosophy class" study session ... Doggie is licking you non-stop because it WANTS to do so, that's all

MY POINT was that IT DOES MATTER WHY

Perhaps I was not clear????

Kelly, my very kind cyber friend & highly respected K9 expert, I have already Conceded your point Entirely and THANKED you SINCERELY for making it Clear -- I must be having an even WORSE week than I thought in the Communications Department here online I certainly AGREE that what frequently works for Average dogs with "normal" Wiring will most likely NOT work at all for dogs with "Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder" ... I hope that Christina's dog Socks will be a relatively EZ fix, but if that does not prove to be the case, then I know you & others on this Forum will be of great assistance in helping her find some sort of successful solution! OK, I'm going to sign off & go have a Glass of Wine now, and I don't even DRINK.

When dealing with animals, dogs, horses, monkeys, whatever - the WHY of a behavior is very important and should not be overlooked.

I don't know how one can even attempt to fix a behavior without understanding the origin of the behavior- the WHY.

I simply used Drift's licking as an example as this dog was licking. I could just have easily mentioned a dog that chases laser lights, spins in the crate, resource guards, is aggressive, etc.

Without understanding the WHY - if the behavior is due to the dog being a butt head, or if it's a serious mental issue, or a behavior due to past trauma - how can you even attempt to try to fix it?

That is the point I was trying to make. To dismiss the WHY of a behavior is a big mistake.

--Kelly

 Quote: Kelly

When dealing with animals, dogs, horses, monkeys, whatever - the WHY of a behavior is very important and should not be overlooked.

I don't know how one can even attempt to fix a behavior without understanding the origin of the behavior- the WHY.

I simply used Drift's licking as an example as this dog was licking. I could just have easily mentioned a dog that chases laser lights, spins in the crate, resource guards, is aggressive, etc.

Without understanding the WHY - if the behavior is due to the dog being a butt head, or if it's a serious mental issue, or a behavior due to past trauma - how can you even attempt to try to fix it?

That is the point I was trying to make. To dismiss the WHY of a behavior is a big mistake.

--Kelly

I need a like button for this. Or better yet a love button

 Quote: Kelly

When dealing with animals, dogs, horses, monkeys, whatever - the WHY of a behavior is very important and should not be overlooked.

I don't know how one can even attempt to fix a behavior without understanding the origin of the behavior- the WHY.

I simply used Drift's licking as an example as this dog was licking. I could just have easily mentioned a dog that chases laser lights, spins in the crate, resource guards, is aggressive, etc.

Without understanding the WHY - if the behavior is due to the dog being a butt head, or if it's a serious mental issue, or a behavior due to past trauma - how can you even attempt to try to fix it?

That is the point I was trying to make. To dismiss the WHY of a behavior is a big mistake.

--Kelly

My comment about stopping it from the start still stands but Kelly's comments above adds another level to the issue and I agree 100%.

If a bad behavior doesn't stop after a couple of tries then it's time to dig deeper into the why.

Thank you all so so much for being of assistance and spending so much of your time for Socks and me. Yes, it is getting a bit clearer in my mind. So my amateurish feeling to want to know what's the cause instead of trying to treat symptoms was justified.

I went with her to the Vet, who is known in this region as the best, which he probably is, when it comes to a surgery or the treatment of a skin problem, whatsoever. He is also a friendly and patient Vet, knows to listen etc. But about such disorders or about dog training he knows nothing.

He said: "Socks is ok, don't worry, she's just an active dog who wants to interact with you, licking is normal, a sign that she loves you. What's OCD? - Nonsense! Dogs are very different, just leave her how she is, put her in the kennel, when that behavior disturbs you..." Yadda, yadda, yadda ... (remember, Bob?)

Now, dear friends, dont tell me to change the Vet, I've been changing so often. All the others know much less than nothing, they believe to know everything!

I'm not a Vet, how should I know if it could be OCD or something else! I can only observe that her licking is excessive. My 3 others give me one or two licks occasionally, it's like saying "Hallo" and then they have more important things to do.

A traumatic experience? I cannot imagine, but not really exclude. It never happened anything, which could have shocked or frightened her. She is a very curious and not in the least fearful animal, the contrary of my other Pit, who pulls back, when e.g. a big bus passes by. Such things don't bother Socks.

I can not completely exclude some traumatic event before we had her. I think I somewhere in this forum told that she and her sister are survivors of a litter of 11 puppies, 6 died! Maybe there Socks had to struggle for a teat to get enough milk. This could have been something traumatic But this is only a guess.

I'm not extremely worried because I could not discover any other signs of something which points in direction OCD.

Only thing: She can be an excessive barker. But this IMO is due to handlers mistakes. It is a typically territorial barking. Once in the kennel she is quiet. She also listens much better to the command "Quiet" meanwhile, when I am with here. But my hubby sometimes lets both Pits loose at night behind my back, because he believes they are a great protection for us. Then we two produce sometimes excessive human barking!

By the way: What stands EZ for? Something electronic? But the Z?

 Quote: Kelly

When dealing with animals, dogs, horses, monkeys, whatever - the WHY of a behavior is very important and should not be overlooked.

I don't know how one can even attempt to fix a behavior without understanding the origin of the behavior- the WHY.

I simply used Drift's licking as an example as this dog was licking. I could just have easily mentioned a dog that chases laser lights, spins in the crate, resource guards, is aggressive, etc.

Without understanding the WHY - if the behavior is due to the dog being a butt head, or if it's a serious mental issue, or a behavior due to past trauma - how can you even attempt to try to fix it?

That is the point I was trying to make. To dismiss the WHY of a behavior is a big mistake.

--Kelly

Kelly, you have ALWAYS been an Angel and a Genius on these boards -- I only feel the Deepest Gratitude & Highest Regard for your opinions here & for everything I've learned from you over the many years of my sojourn on this Forum ... I am in your DEBT many TIMES over & would not dream of arguing any point with you or others whose skills go Way ABOVE & BEYOND Mine in multiple categories !!!

I am just a Pet Owner, not a professional trainer, or animal behaviorist, or dog sport competitor, or Veterinarian -- My messages are written ONLY with the Common Spectrum of pretty much "average & normal" K9 temperament traits in mind ... I would not presume to advise folks on how to treat a dog who is Neurologically Deranged, or Dangerously Human-Aggressive, or in need of any Clinical / Medical Intervention, as may be required for one with "Obesessive-Complusive Disorder".

I post under the principle of Ockham's Razor: "Assume the simplest situation First" as it is the most likely, but if there are Reasons to Believe that a SPECIAL CASE is involved, then Defer to the Specialists

You're both wonderful Kelly and Candi, I trust you both so much. Don't worry about different opinions. You're actually on the same page. I've been reading everything multiple times and can see and understand your points of view.

You are certainly both right within the context you wrote about it. It helped me to be more observant, more thoughtful. I'm just a stupid little beginner with a bit of experience since I found Leerburg.

Different opinions can be confusing, but I can well live with them, because they always encourage us to go on searching for a good solution and they open the horizon.

Without seeing the behavior of a dog personnally it is even for an experienced person not possible to judge what is really going on.

To assume the simplest situation first is good advice Candi. And if then nothing helps within reasonable time we need the diagnostic and help of a specialist who merits to be called like this. Agree fully, Kelly.

The problem then would be that such a person doesn't exist here. Sorry for using a bit rude words, but unfortunately it is a fact that you find just idiots here as far as it concerns a bit more complicated cases.

Maybe in Rio or Sao Paulo. Maybe. But I know people from there, who say it's not much better. And if, then you would first have to find that better one. Needle in a haystack.

This would mean trying out multiple other idiots first until you perhaps hit the jackpott. Means in other words adding without doubt multiple traumas to the animal, already beginning with the flight and the catastrophic desorganization here.

I will find somehow my way and if I need an advice I prefer to ask my contact persons here in the Webboard. It until now always helped me more, than consulting money greedy "professionals" around here.

Thanks again for spending so much time for us.

 Quote: Bob Scott

My comment about stopping it from the start still stands but Kelly's comments above adds another level to the issue and I agree 100%.

If a bad behavior doesn't stop after a couple of tries then it's time to dig deeper into the why.

That's pretty much what I do. Approach it as a normal behavior and if it doesn't improve or the response is odd start looking at other possibilities. I've trained several dogs labeled "OCD" by vets for certain actions. Simple obedience training and a through grounding in the meaning of "NO" stopped it. There are absolutely dogs who have obsessions but I find that the label is WAY overused even by trained professionals who should know better.