Quote: Becky Niedbalka

So instead of asking for help, I should just clam It? I have seen some seriously silly questions when I look back at the previous posts, and they were answered.
I have had the last 2 dogs be managed away from the kids, so it is nothing new to me.
I will stop being foolish, and keep my work/ pup rearing issues to myself.
Sorry to be a pest, won't happen again.

I'm quite sure I did not say you should clam it or that you were being foolish or a pest. I don't think I even implied that. All I said was I was confused.

As far as managing kids and an aggressive dog in the same household, I expressed my opinion, but how you do that is entirely your business.

You have as much right as anybody else to post questions here. Please don't let me stop you. I'll stay out of your threads from now on, since I seem to have antagonized you without meaning to.

Becky,

Take a deep breath, and exhale slowly. Folks here who have responded are genuinely interested in offering you helpful suggestions.

On too many occasions I have been abrupt, even confrontational in my responses here. It is my lot in life to be a studied curmudgeon, and by that I mean a cranky hermit. But...

As it turns out, I have a dog, Sam, who is never allowed around children, and most adults. He has a personality that might be the result of really poor, perhaps harsh, formative years handling, and yes he is a rescue. I note Sam because he represents to me the vindication of patience and boundaries, rewards and not so much.

We all make decisions when it comes to our dogs. We decide if we want a super pet or one with more challenge. But whatever, it is our responsibility to work with and protect the dog.

You have a young dog. You have training and conditioning decisions to make. You have to find your voice and training approaches that yield the results you want to achieve with the wee dog. People here want you to be successful. I certainly do.

It is wise to always take my advice with a grain of salt. I suffer from over optimism. I believe almost all dogs can be worked with. The challenge is to figure out how.

I start with a daily schedule that is reasonably constant. Up, eat, out, rest, exercise, some general training, free time, rest, exercise, eat, out, bed. And behaviors I want to reinforce, such as no negative interaction between the dogs, no hoarding, no dominance posturing, etc. And the quid pro quo for me providing for their needs is their adherence to my rules. Lots of praise and touching, but in the context of my house, my stuff, my rules.

Confidence is a big factor, in my world. I believe if I act with confidence and consistency, the dogs will adapt to my idiosyncrasies and there will be peace in the kingdom.

It took time with Sam, and he came here with full blown issues, but he is now my shadow and the quickest to respond to commands. And I still won't let him around children or most adults. My choices included to both keep Sam and protect him, from himself.

Post what you want. Ask what you want to? There is no shortage of suggestions here.

So, cum grano salis.

Whew, this was too long by half.

Mike A.

Becky! No one here - I'm 100% sure - feels you as a pest. If members here would think like that, I'd be the first one who had to be scared to turn up again..

I go with Kelly, who says, sometimes it seems a bit confused what you really want. But I found it not so awfully hard to understand. I have more the impression that you are sometimes a bit confused. Quasi everyone here knows that I had already many confusions in my management of dogs. But I'm still here, because the answers I recieved were always full of stimulations.

I also go fully withMike, our "cranky hermit" ( )

Thinking back at some of my problems, I absolutely think you've made surprising improvements. You can't reach everything togehter and within a short time. I have no kids, so a lot is less problematic for me. I still want to express the opinion that you should go on with that dog, as long as he is not a danger for the kids.

I also go with all those who say it is difficult to give an advice, because no one can see the varios ponts of your reality. But on the other hand, if you have the possibility to keep the children separated from him, then do it as long as they might be in danger.

I additionally think, not only the dog should learn rules, also the children should learn how to communicate with that puppy. This of course corresponding to their age and capacity. Perhaps for the time being just watching how you are doing it.

Again, don't feel discouraged, you are in a learning process and your puppy and your kids too. Dogs are indiviuals and it can be difficult because we often don't know their personal prehistory.

With ups and downs we all have to live and I'm sure all our wonderful professionals or very experienced members also had to go through a similar phase once.

I apologize. I know when I talk, I can be confusing most times. It was a bad day yest, a young man was found dead in the snow in our town, after a 2 day search. Feelings are running high here, glad he was found before the blizzard, but that is all to be glad about
I have not stressed enough, his reactivity is only when on lead. He is perfectly fine otherwise. That meaning we will never use the prong again, and will stick with the dd collar.
In re thinking, I would say he panics at the pressure on the prong. And hurts himself. We will not be using it again.
The kids, under supervision,have always been able to take their space with him, with using their bodies. We taught him that at a young age, that we own our space. They can stand up if he tries running to them, and stand straight and step towards him, with a sharp nope. He will immediately back off. I am not worried that he will harm the kids, as they have no need to touch his lead. The one thing he totally knows. Is children are my property, and he must have permission to go to them.
I apologize Cheri, I miss read you response. I have been feeling slightly dismissed. But that is just my feeling. I have a weird mind.

My responses are as confusing as he sometimes. Working for his food has helped immensely, and I no longer have an issue putting him on and off the table for grooming. He will still fuss when you work around his head and neck, but it's all whining and just avoidance. He gets marked for keeping his head down, so he doesn't get up, and I have been switching where I start on him each time, with the first 5 min being marked just for laying there, no brushing until the 5 min passes.

Thank you Mike. And Christina. I think a lot like you. He is young, and if he wanted to bite, he would. He reminds me of a terrier when you want to push him off a couch. A puppy tantrum would be a good explanation. A 60+ lb tantrum.
I only changed my attitude towards the better, because he has been doing much better. I know the leash issue is still there, and did get to finish the Dealing with a Dominant dog video, and read the ebooks. And don't see him as an aggressive pup now. He pain inflicted himself, and was too amped to stop himself.
To explain that clearly, if you put the prong on, when taking him out of the crate. He bolts forward like he would with a flat collar, to go outside, hits the end of the shortened lead, and prongs himself quite hard, and that's when he redirects to the leash. While still pronging himself trying to get away from the prong. That is fixed, by losing the prong.
I also make him sit at the crate now, for at least 30 seconds, not saying a word. release, walk a step, sit, wait and release to the door, sit, out the door, sit while I get my boots on, you see the picture. With that amount of sitting, he now has no chance to redirect.
With that. We do it on walks too. When I stop, he must sit. That way he knows what he needs to do. When a vehicle passes, we 180, sit, look at me, and tug before the car passes, ending whenever I feel the attention in fully on me. Sometimes we retug, sometimes I mark the out and move on. This has helped dramatically with cars.
Mind you, this has only been like this for the past week. Making him hungry and working for his food, is the sole reason I think why he has turned around. We still have our moments, but nothing as bad as he was.
I also have learned that before walks, I would have him waiting at the door while I got ready. That amped him up.i see that now. So now he waits in his crate until I am ready. If he is excited while moving away from the crate, I put him back in. Those first few steps are very important on reading his state of mind.
So with trying to clear things up. What I originally wanted was a good game plan. I hope I have explained things much better, I have been typing this for 45 min, taking my time.
Please accept my apologies. My mouth always gets the better of me. I have lost 2 dogs this past year. I really want to try my damndest for this boy. We all love him, and having a 6 month old pup respecting us enough to not jump or mouth kids, and now relinquish bones to the point that they don't mean anything to him now, I can see a light for him. It is I that must be consistent, constantly.
We had also stopped running him with the skidoo, in mid March, after a backlash from some people here. That has I feel, caused him to not have a good mind release. Now people here can stick it, he loves it, we are not in a marathon and he gets to pick the pace, and we stop so many times, there is no reason why we can't continue.

In re-reading my post here, I realize I could have phrased it less harshly, more tactfully. Just so there's no doubt, Becky, I really do want to see you succeed with this dog. The LB discussion board is such a valuable resource, and I hope you will not hesitate to ask any and all questions here, or just provide an update anytime you like.

I know you have a number of LB videos. I can't remember off the top of my head if you have ever mentioned having Michael Ellis's "Leash Skills." It's all about teaching your dog to give in to leash pressure. It might be worth a look if you don't already have it.

Also, there has been discussion here on the board in the past about Dr. Karen Overall's "Protocol for Relaxation." I don't believe there is anything in it that is contradictory to the teachings here on LB. This board is where I first learned of it, and I put it to good use when my dogs were younger. It's another tool in the box, so to speak. Here's a link that provides just the .pdf of the actual steps, but if you were to Google it, I'm sure you will find other sites that discuss it in more detail.


https://www.boulderhumane.org/sites/default/files/ProtocolforRelaxation.pdf

That is perhaps the best step by step program I have read!
Thank you for that link. I am going to read it a few times today. Will be perfect to implement it during our blizzard tonight.

Jim says I read too much into things. I tell him I am a delicate flower lol. He just rolls his eyes at me!

Skidoo run went well, he barks a bit at me, but I think he is just in high drive excitement. Off leash he sticks right to my left leg, matching my speed. We went about 6km, stopping and practicing obedience away from the machine. Than while I sat on my seat.
He got one e collar correction for going in front of the machine on take off on the way back, recovered quickly, and a short slow 10 min loose leash walk after we got home.
When we got back from the walk, he was loose, following me as I did my wood getting chores. Inside we practiced look. Down, sit, and I used pressure on diff parts of his body to move him in position, with a few collar grabs, collar pressure, and rewards for every collar grab. He did superb.
If this means he eats out of a bait bag most of the day, I am fine with that. It is fun for me, and I think he enjoys knowing he can have my focus too.
I did forget to say, we have been using the e collar for off leash training. He does great with it, and we have never had an issue with correcting. I vibrate for his attention, and correct with a small stim with the no. It has helped immensely with keeping him in the yard, and he never tries to chase a car or people when they pass by the yard. We have a big backyard, surrounded by bush, so the e collar was a better choice than a long line, less tangle, less pressure, and he makes much better decisions himself with it.
I have ordered a basket muzzle, just to have on hand in case he ever acts up again

And today, while massaging his neck, I found out why he was so reactive. He pronged himself so bad, and wouldn't let up with the flailing, he has a ring of scabs. Hard to even find. With all the hair, I had no idea. We wont be using it ever again.
I will get the leerburg leash video tonight and pair it with my reading.
Thank you again everyone. You are all appreciated.

Another mention. I do mot marker train in the house. He has no off button in the house, and on an article I read on Leerburg, training wasn't to be done in the home. I do it in the porch,around the grooming table, and always outdoors.
I don't know If I am right in this. I just figured when we leave the crate, not to feed that mindset.
And since he always has a great mind during potty breaks, I assumed I was going the right way. Correct me if I am wrong.
And in a side not, he is only loose in the kitchen. He can't settle in the living room, too close to me, and I think the carpet causes him to be too warm. He will end up cobstantly getting up, shufting,pacing around the room.
The kitchen works, he settles down to where I can still be in view, and if it is just him and I, will take short naps. If I get up and move around, he always watches me, but I can keep him in a down. He does not pace in the kitchen. We can pass by him and he just watches us, waiting for a cue.
In the porch, when not training, he settles down by the door. Cooler I guess!

Cheri, can you show a link to the leash training I should start with please!
I checked, not sure which one is what I need.
Thanks in advance!

Hi Becky,
there are two courses by Tyler Muto. I have both and loved them a lot.
One is named "Leash Reactivity". I guess this might be a very recommendable one for your momentary problem going step by step following the Modules. I found it very helpful. https://university.leerburg.com/Catalog/viewCourse/cid/15

The second one "Loose Leash Walking" , also by Tyler Muto was an immense help for me too. /university.leerburg.com/Catalog/viewCourse/cid/17

A great, great course for me was Relationship games" by Mark Keating.https://university.leerburg.com/Catalog/viewCategory/catid/10

At the time, when I purchased them, the first ones were interactive courses. I was so fascinated that I took 3 times the same, each time with another dog. Incredible having direct contact with the instructior and the classmates and having life chats. We also had to update videos each week to show how we're going on twith he active topic and recieved a thorough comment about it from Mark. Pity they don't offer them as interactive ones now. Hope later on again. But also the DVDs are great, ,But you must know that none of them is directly about leash training, as the name says it's about relationship. Building this as much as possible with our dogs makes the rest of the training a "piece of cake", well quite exaggerated, but it is really one of the most important parts.

Fabulous is also Forrest Micke's "Engagemen skilsl", https://university.leerburg.com/Catalog/viewCategory/catid/10 , a course which shows us how to motivate our dogs to remain focussed on us amid distractions on walks etc. Perhaps something for a bit lster on. I could name also others, though you can't anyway follow all of them together. Just to show you, that you'll never lack instructions here at Leerburg.

Begin with one or two you think is/are most useful for you.

Clapping hands for your ongoing success with Harry!

Christina offered a few great suggestions that I know she has personally tried and loved. I'm not sure, though, if you were inquiring about the online courses or the DVD. The Michael Ellis DVD I was referring to is this one:

http://leerburg.com/LeashSkillswithEllisDVD.htm

Since I don't know what DVDs you already have, there may be some overlap between this one and others. This one is also quite brief, just a little over an hour. It's been a while since I've watched it, but if I recall, it covers the basics of how you go about teaching the dog to respond to leash pressure, and there is not a lot about going out for a walk in everyday situations, but those basics are important to practice on a daily basis before even getting to that point.

Christina also mentioned a couple of Tyler Muto courses. Here are the corresponding DVDs. I don't have either of these, but I do know from previews I have watched that Tyler does make use of a prong collar, and I know you are wanting to stay away from that now, but maybe you can improvise and use the skills taught, just a different collar.

http://leerburg.com/looseleashwalkingdvd.php

http://leerburg.com/leashreactivitydvd.php

I'm also a fan of Forrest Micke, although I only have one of his DVDs at this point.

I know any of these training DVDs involve a financial investment, and I'm not suggesting they would be a magic solution for any of us (we can wish, though!), but the way I look at it with my collection of training DVDs, if I can take one or two important things away from each one and file it away in the "dog training" section of my brain, it is worth it.

Maybe Kelly or someone else with experience with all of the DVDs I've mentioned will chime in here with more information or ideas.