I just wanted to add something that happened to my family once. My daughter was born in 1994 and at the time we had a working line GSD male and a female Golden Retriever/ GSD mix. When my daughter was 2 she grabbed the mix like small children usually grab dogs. The dog reacted by growling at her. Instantly my male GSD dog let her know in no uncertain terms that this behavior to a child was totally unacceptable by snapping and growling at the mix. That made me feel very good about his temperament. He knew without even being shown that my child was to be protected and there hasn't been another incident since then. Sadly, I had to put him down on May 26th because of severe arthritis but in the time he was here he instilled a love and admiration of GSDs that I will always have.

I have an 8 yr. old Female GSD--not PPD trained-- that is friendly towards children, but gets "fired up" if they show a great quantity of movement. She's been like this since she was a pup. I suspect it's directly related to high prey instincts. For this reason I don't totally trust her around children. I'm sure I could break her of it with a few good corrections, but she's not around children much and never unleashed when she is, so it's really not an issue for me. As far as trained PPDs dogs go I'm sure with good genetics, that a high prey dog could be trained to be reliable around children-- kinda like training them not to chase cats. If I were looking for a PPD dog in a family situation with children I would look for a dog with rock solid nerves and low-med prey. I'm not a fan of crazy prey driven dogs as pets--for the most part their difficult to live with.

Regarding Blitzen... he came with the great nerves, no doubt. As far as prey drive, I do not know the means used for evaluating this; however, he has an unbelivable urge to chase cars, which we have under control- though it has taken effort (primarly, making sure he can't get out of the house and yard.)For awhile we had an issue with the littlest kid letting him out.

He didn't actually "chase", rather raced along the side, down in the ditch along the road... all out. Does this reflect prey drive... or is it just a crazy dog passtime? Also, genetically speaking, he certainly SHOULD have fabulous drive... but nothing is certain, I know.

I suspect that the difference between Blitzen and the other dogs we're discussing is the fact that Blitzen lives with these kids all day. (And by the way, he is the rule-enforcer with our other dog as well... he doesn't allow Bear to steal food off the counters or enter rooms he isn't allowed in... all he has to do is LOOK at Bear, and Bear slinks off to behave. Honest to God, Bear once stole a raw potato, and Blitzen made him sit in the corner! I'm not kidding!)

Meanwhile, he truly doesn't dominate the kids- and yes, it's Ed's breeding- because I certainly don't have the skills to create this behavior. Really, I just apply parenting rules to everyone, besides using Ed'd videos.

Liz <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Brendan, I'm sorry, it's clear that we got off on the wrong foot. I don't presume to tell people how to raise their kids, at all. That isn't my place, and I'm doing the best I can to raise mine, and I'm certainly not perfect. I am not in any way judging this family, I am trying to determine, through what you wrote, what the situation is. It is hard to visualise without knowing the family.
I promise no more mention of spoons. :rolleyes:
As far as my dogs go, the one that I am training as an assistance dog, is curious, but doesn't get into the kids wrestling, he just watches, mind you it doesn't happen too often. Keep in mind that I have a 12 year old and a 10 year old (with global delay)of my own and a 1,2& 3 year old during the day. I don't think it's fair to subject my dogs to the day-care kids without constant supervision, so I do socialisation with all of them and then put up the dogs.
My pet dog is kept away from the kids, because he has very poor nerves and will growl, and leave. I have taught him to leave, but I don't trust any dog alone with kids. That's my opinion, and again I wouldn't presume to tell others what to do.
I know first hand what it is like to have a number of kids and a dog to care for. This isn't easy at the best of times. I have had up to 11 kids at a time, but this is very rare. I guess I just want to be sure that this family knows what they are up against, and are getting a dog for the right reasons. I have heard too many stories that make my hair stand on end. If they are set on getting a dog, I (as their friend) would be darn sure that they get a dog from a reputable breeder, and that the dog has sound nerves. I would also help them with the training.
You appear to have knowledge about dogs and training, so that is what I would do.
Again, sorry if I ticked you off. It certainly wasn't my intention.

I'm sorry I forgot to mention that I would look for a dog with higher pack (social) drive. I wouldn't want them to rate high on the prey scale, as these dogs tend to chase and react to kids more intently. However, having said that, I would want a dog that is intent enough to train, using their drive instincts. I don't have the knowledge to test puppies, but there are many on this list who do. And there are a few good tests available. Ed has one, and there is a Volhard test that I like.

Thanks Phyllis for your help. Its interesting you mention you are involved in training a asisstance dog. I recently read a of a man here in Australia who is a paraplegic in a wheel chair and has such a dog. It opens doors for him, picks objects up of the ground if he drops them, bring the phone to him when it rings , apparently the dog responds to over 40 commands. On top of all that the man says the dog is a great comfort to him as a companion animal. Do you know of any information or books on training this type of dog?

I would recomend a sporting dog. Such as a begal or a spaniel. They are small, and very tough not too fragile. Such as the Welsh Springer Spaniel they are stable, active dogs requiring moderate exercise. Good with children and likes close family contact. Welshies will not be content to be kept in the back yard or relegated to the basement, isolated from your family's activities. Since they are hunting dogs, they hopefully won't mind gun fire. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Hope this helps.

I need to pay better attention - if we leave a thread go so long that we have people telling others to buy beagles on a German Shepherd discussion board there is something wrong. DAH !!!!

This thread is closed .