Van Camp wrote:

Just don't try to fool people into thinking that their dogs are German Shepherd Dogs or working/utility dogs. They are not, most can't even pass a basic herding instinct test. I was at a herding instinct test in Genoa City, WI in 1999. Two friends and I entered our German-line dogs, all of which passed with ease. There were two American-line GSDs entered. One stood in the pen and stared at the sheep. The other was afraid to enter the pen.

The tester told me that she had started in herding with GSDs, but gave up on them because they didn't have enough drive to really herd (these were American-line dogs, 20 years ago). She had since gone to Border Collies. She said that it was nice to see GSDs that still possessed real herding instinct--i.e., our German dogs.

Pete Felknor

Sorry VanCamp... I did go soft there for a moment I just get sick of hearing stupid AMR show line breeders complain and they never do anything about it except blame working dog breders which is totaly stupid.....I just wish they would listen for a change.

There are a few show line breeders out there who have listened and are trying to breed the "Total" dog... my breeder is one of them, she has many many champions in her lines but dam they are nerve hard dogs, I have courage tested several of her dogs both male and feamale and was shocked. Not a one backed down from me. These are dogs that have never seen any kind of helper or bite equipment. When I first approched her about a pup and told her what I was goign to do with him, instead of going off on some show line speach, she actually asked me all sorts of questions about SCH and actually listened and is excited about adding a working title to her line, it can only benifit her bottom line to have the best of both worlds....

So there is hope!

Vince, did I break a rule or something by posting that picture here? Certainly didn't mean any harm if I did. Is this covered in the faq's... oops, just saw it... no attached files. Sorry about that.

VanCamp, you tattletale! What the heck? Are you just hanging around in the middle of the night lookin' for rule breakers? I thought I could get that pic through to the morning crowd at least. Did Vince annoint you hall monitor?

I'm more like Don Vincenzo's ENFORCER.

Are you talkin ta me? Bada Bing. . .

Pete, that is an all too familiar story.

Over-angulation in the ASS (boy, I do like that!) is what made me take a detour from this breed when I began searching for a dog around 11 years ago. I didn't really think about working line shepherds, but I probably would not have bought one as a first dog anyways.

Beauty and mild temperament is what most pet owners look for and unfortunately that, combined with fashion fads in the show ring is gradually eliminating many of the traits the original dogs (in any breed) were once bred for. Many working dogs are way too intense for the average pet owner however, and it is the average pet owner that drives the dog market. Show breeders must realize that they are not doing their breed any favors though. Compromise must be reached by both sides. After all, isn't everyone supposed to have the best interests of the breed at heart? Don't breed clubs remember the cardinal rule of "form follows function"? Even if the dog has the form, can he really function or does he have the ability/desire/instinct to do what in the breed description says was his original purpose? This is a debate that will rage on as long as there are two sides to a coin.

Anybody remember the Hatfields and the McCoy's?

Yeah but we're right and they're wrong <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hey VanCamp of course I'm single, I'm only twelve LOL

Na just kidding.... I am single though <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I must say this is the best thread I have ever read on this board I think. Excellent choice Karmen.

Caniche,
Your point of pet owners driving the market is right on the money, I did not think of that angle, and now that I think of it, it really makes sense.

Uhh Ohhhh.. (Singing) Love is in the air..can you imagine VanCamp and Karmen having an argument at home married?

Karmen,
Weelll.......sheeeooot!!! If'n Id'a knowed you was alreddy rite, Id'a stopped jabberin' and jawin' a long time ago!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

P.S. That VanCamp sounds like he's an awful lot to handle!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> If'n you need a hand to help hog-tie him............wellllllll just holler <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> It would be my pleasure....... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Well it's hard sometimes being right all the time because I just can't be everywhere at once LOL <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Yeah that VanCamp is spirited one. We may just have to get out the branding iron How's does the initials KB sound LOL.