Originally posted by Dave Lilley:
Mother - Son, father - daughter, mixing with another breed. You guys are really SCARING me. Frankenstein would be proud.

David, was that tounge in cheek. Breed to outside breed crosses are in todays working dog world becoming much more common. Fact is they always were.

The most common location for a multitude of various crosses are from the KNPV in Holland.

The German Police Dog Kennels have even jumped into the practice of mix breed matings with their traditional Police GSD with the Malinois.

The Malinois itself owes a certain amount of it's own legacy of high level work ethic to the many infusions of outside blood.

Take a hard look at some of the very old lines from Belgium and the NVBK stuff of yesteryear.

Mals have been crossed also between the four different varieties for almost ever.
(Why anyone would cut in a Lakinois to a Mal though does confuse me) Mal crosses with the Groenendale or Terv are although not everyday but are done and well documented.

There are now lines of pure black Malinois coming out of Holland and it was not all that long ago I was flown into an American Cities Police Dept when one of our own breeding was being finished up as a service dog and once in this PSD Kennels I saw the largest Mals I have ever seen.

They were from Holland/KNPV Lines and were Mal/Dane Crosses.

As for the reference to very tight breeding, yes there is a chance to magnify the faults but there is also the chance to magnify the qualities and take advantage of the benefits in future planned carefully, breeding, IMHO.

All purebreds were mutts or other breeds at some point in the heritage and development of the individual breed and to think that any working breed is still not in development and remains stable is not viewing the whole pic in my estimation.

Jerry

Jerry, Malinois have recent pit bull ancestry. From an article written by Sandy Bryon.The article can be found athttp://www.nwk9.com/nwk9_reading.htmIt's the first article on the page.This was dicussed on a different board.
Milt

Hi Milt, I checked out that article and have been hearing a small buzz about it around but after reading it I am not 100% sold on the statement.

I am sure someone has tried to cross pits into the mal but for what reason. Hardness, unlikely. The gameness, for what, a dog that will not let go till death does he depart. For sure not to add size.

Perhaps her reference to the pit being recently added to the Malinois is a result of all the Rah Rah Rah of the "Donavon Pincher" which is a Pit Mal cross from within the States.

The other statement about how in Europe they have been breeding Pits to GSD and selling under a different breed name to the North American Police Agencies would seem a stretch. Again perhaps more confusion from the Donavon Pincher Sales/Marketing Spin.

Does any of the PSD Officers on this list have first hand knowledge about the GSD/Pit cross.

It simply does not make much logic to do this.

I can see herding to herding but not fighting dog to herding.

Maybe I am wrong but would like to know where the lady got her info.

The other aspect of this idea of pits being introduced from Europe into the GSD is also a stretch as pretty much all of Europe has banned the APBT and any of the Pit crosses along with a host of other breeds that are sanctioned as a result of Breed Specific Legislation.

Logic tells me that it simply is not happening above board in Europe.

In the backyards of North America. Well that is a different story.

Jerry

I joined this discussion a few days back, and so far I've enjoyed myself very much. I've found a wide range of information.

But I guess my question is . . . is this a discussion group, or a debate/shock jock radio show? Can some people just take it down a notch? Everytime I read the posts on here I feel like I'm watching Court TV.

Couldn't a lot more be accomplished here if everyone wasn't trying to get their ego's stroked? I know this is not everyone. But let's try to take it easy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Wolf, this is a tough board there has been 3 suicides and one overdose......... and thats just the dogs.

milt

Milt,

Don't forget those 10 ASD breeders that VanCamp has buried under his basement!!LOL <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The count is going up, I'm running out of space. I joined that "other" GSD web board, you guys know, the Show dog one. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

OH YEAH?? Well, some of us AmBred shepherd people keep coming back even AFTER someone tries to bury us!! Must be a little bit of German in me, you think? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Who? What? YOU! No this can't be. . .
NNNNOOOOoooooooooooo................ . . .

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

You know when I started this thread, I didn't mean to turn my favorite sounding board into a punching bag or anything. At any rate, things got out of hand and then some (I take credit for that). I still think that what I have said is sound theory and should be utilized more though. It's my understanding of the basics (very basic basics), and where I plan to start when I go about breeding dogs. I'll need to stack the deck in my favor as much as possible, and I feel the same can be said with many other "neophyte" dog breeders as well. It won't magically make anybody "Master breeders" or anything. I didn't mean to imply that.

Ellen,
I may have taken what you were saying wrong. It wouldn't be the first time I misunderstood somebody, that's for sure. I plan to use line bred dogs for my program if possible and there ARE a lot of people that would like to do away with line breeding all together. Then, my "big plan" wouldn't work, to say the least. No excuse for me being such a jerk about it though. Sorry.