Another thread I was just getting into a little bit of controversy and it is closed? A little quick on the trigger if you ask me. But, then again, who asked me Length and topic of thread depends on the the moderator, and whether he/she thinks the thread is worthwhile. It's their board - and their power.
But when it happens (BAM!) in the middle of a thread I'm reading with interest, I bite my nails so I won't type for a while...

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Originally posted by Dogma:

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Another thread I was just getting into a little bit of controversy and it is closed? A little quick on the trigger if you ask me. But, then again, who asked me

Length and topic of thread depends on the the moderator, and whether he/she thinks the thread is worthwhile. It's their board - and their power.
But when it happens (BAM!) in the middle of a thread I'm reading with interest, I bite my nails so I won't type for a while...

Certain folks do not like if one does not agree with thier thought process, and question logic. It amazes me when threads do go on and on when certain folks are writting the same thing over and over. But when there is a diffrent point of view from thier own, "Bam"!. Communisiom, even in dog training <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

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With this type of dog if you corrected it at the same level that one would correct a "hard tempermented" dog the sensitive dog would more then likley go into avoidence.

Thank you Michael. That makes sense. Of course, the "Hardness" of a correction is subjective and I suspect mine, compared to others on this BB, are probably more on the level of "Medium" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

On a side note, and to mollify the moderator(s), I am aware that this thread is under the Czech GSD topic, which is the reason it caught my attention in the first place: I have a bitch that has Czech breeding (Dolf ze Zakovy Hory - g.sire) along with some DDR/WG (from sire). I have no clue as to the quality of this Czech dogs influence in this breeding so any info under this topic gets my attention.

Where ever the temperament came from - Czech, DDR, WG or combo - it is super: stable, intelligent, drivey, but calm in the house. At 12 months she is showing awesome potential for the protection phase. Deep, strong barks from the first session on. Tracking: no problem - a food hound.

However, in OB, she tends to be handler sensitive which first kept me from doing hard prong corrections. The TD felt she was training me, as the "abused dog" profile would immediately turn off my corrections, and the trained behavior would not occur. Once I learned to ignore the "sad face", and calmly continue until the desired behavior occured, (then praise) she would turn off the sad face routine and get to business. She NEVER goes into advoidance on corrections, or loses her drive. In fact, very strong corrections INcrease her attention and drive.

That's the reason I asked if it is possible to have a hard dog that is also handler sensitive...based on the definitions given.

My intent was not to turn this into a pissing match. I have rcvd satisfactory explanation as to why the thread was closed. I was just a little miffed as I had just posted a lengthy response and was looking forward to reading the answers back. And I put my attitude in the wrong place. Have a tendancy to do that from time to time.

Now back to this thread. Misinterpreted meanings. It is like anything else, people like to talk to 'show' how much they know.

When most people talk I have to politely ask them to be quiet, because with everything they say, they are literally 'showing' how ignorant they are and I am losing respect for them. So in an effort to 'save' them from diarrhea of the mouth, I ask them to be quiet.
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Your issue in ob. I would speculate is avodiance. You are correcting to a level that the dog is minding you and trying her best to avoid the stress from you. If the correction in soft she kinda goes "oh stop that" but when a higher level of stress is applied, the dog wants it to stop, and is really focusing as it does not want to be corrected. This is working a bit on the nerves of the dog, and I think in most dogs to get a reliable response, needed.

aha! And that's why the TD tells me to "correct like you mean it!" Yes, she does do better on a strong correction than the "oh, stop that" kind.

Now, can this be a generalised behavior for Czech dogs, or just happenstance in this particular breeding?

And I know that every country has good and bad dog examples...but then why are DDR and Czech so often lumped under certain characteristics? Characteristics of only some high-profile dogs, laziness on the part of the story teller..or based on some fact?

I think that the major problem with the Czeck dogs is that people were always told West German. The only people that would buy thme were normally police people. They were cheaper, as sport people did not want them, and they performed.

Belgium dogs were not as expensive and not so popular unitil thier sucess in Schutzhund world-wide. It kinda made a hard argument for the only West German deal. Czeck dogs are gaining popularity though, for their real attitude in protection as this is the current fad now.

This is kinda generalized.

The main difference with Czech dogs is that they did not have the western sport and show influence in their breeding. Makes better dogs for serious work, has nothing to do with what people were told. It has to do with isolation of a breeding population (for the most part) and a different breeding goal. Take a look for a minute at the difference in the titles and how they are judged and you will immediately see that the Czech titles are harder to attain. That doesn't mean that there are not great dogs from West German bloodlines, it just means that as a whole the changing aspects of Schutzhund and showing dogs affected the majority of the population in a negative way. That is now begining to happen to the Czech lines as the western titles and competitions are becoming more pupular in the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Bulgaria, and Hungary. Rarely does public opinion have anything to do with fact.

Thanks Van Camp, that makes it alot more clear. It was so easy to say too. lol I see what your saying. Even someone asks me about them that's what I'll go with.

I've never seen the differences explained that way. Makes a lot of sense.