I've stated this before but I think that if you have a breeder that is knowledgeable with working lines and evaluating a dog and says the female/male has the drives, etc, and you trust this breeder.......then I value that more than just a title.
Now we have probobly all seen dogs that passed that shouldnt have....and dont get me started on the show people. Titles dont always mean workability.
It is very time consuming and expensive in this country to title in SchH.
I just spent about $400 total this past weekend putting the SchH 2 on my young male. Driving, hotel, etc. Thats one dog. It's going to be impossible almost to expect large breeders to title all of their dogs.
Just my thoughts.

Patrick, that brings up an interesting issue. Should breeders have a program so large that they do not have the time to title their stock? How does what they know about a dog compare with the small breeder that has a few females, and is able to spend more one on one time with the dogs and keep them inside where they can see more of the dog's behavior? These are rhetorical questions. I am not going to answer them because no one seems to like my answers. (going along with the KNPV comparison, most of the dogs are bred by club members with a few dogs, certainly not large operations)

No where in my post Brad did I say anything about crossing German Shepherds. Not sure how you came up with that. The comment was made that if you don't title your females in SchH or Koer them and you breed them then you only are doing it for money, or the female is crap or you are too lazy to get off your butt and train. This is a load of crap. Nothing more, nothing less.
This is going around in circles anyway. Nuff said from me.

The bottom line is people who do not title and breed anyway will justify it. The people who do title and breed will defend it's superiority. I have a bitch with 2 untitled bitches in the pedigree - BUT those 2 are producers of and littermates to police dogs - Yes, it is expensive to title - Double your schh2 cost to get the conformation rating and Koering on my bitch in July. She did not have a litter until titled, and was bred to a titled, koered V rated male...the nearest clubs are over 100 miles away. The koering was over 600 miles away. No it is not easy, it is not convenient, it is not cheap. But it can be done. And yes - it proves something about the dog <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'm done as well. We'll agree to disagree. Angela, once again take my post IN CONTEXT ! Did you read the part:
I am NOT saying there is no such thing as an excellent untitled female/male. I am also NOT saying all titled females/males are worth breeding. Anyway, Im done. Lets move on.

Yes Jeff I did read your post <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I didn't breed the Sch3 female, I sent her back. A well known breeder now has her and plans on breeding this! oh well. At least I know I didn't. Sad really.

Who's the well known breeder?

It seems like most of the breeders out there have only taken their females to a Sch1, but the males up to a Sch3. What's up with that?

When I see that, I see a person who's in it for one reason in particular, and that doesn't include bettering their breed. Honestly, I think this is becoming a fad, for females to achieve only a Sch1, and males a Sch3. Females are just as important, if not more, that the male. This is a breeding pair, put the equal time and effort into both.

When I do see a Sch3 female, I am generally impressed. Whether or not Sch titles hold any water, going that extra mile really says something about that person's character. And to a puppy buyer, that should mean a lot.

It isn't any kind of a fad Mike... Reason is that to breed, it takes away from training. Every time the bitch has a litter, you are looking at a couple of months of down time. Add to that, not everyone lives in a climate where training is year round, and you have more problems. Then, if you are really lucky like me... your bitch will come in season or have a litter every time there is a trial available within 800 miles! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

My own female has her SchH2. She will probably eventually get her three, but right now it is not my #1 priority. We still train. She is far from a puppy factory. The 3 won't change the pups one bit. Again, as I have said before it only makes the puppy advertisements look better.

We all know how hard it is for the male to sire litters and trial at the same time.
Guys get to have all the fun...
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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What does a title signify?

It shows, that on X day, under X judge the dog was performing to the standard of X judges OPINION. I am not at all saying that titles don't matter, but there IS a bit of politics involved. Lee stated she Koered under a certain judge because he is known to be fair to working dogs.. If she had koered under a different judge, the dog may not have recieved the same rating... it still comes down to an OPINION.

I value titles, but I will not forget that I too, have two very capable eyes and can see the dog in front of me.