Quote:

Originally posted by Dennis Hasley:
Lisa it all comes down to solid obedience and it is where Linda needs to focus on. Nothing else will matter until control by the owner is established and this will be best accomplished by finding a trainer like I have suggested and it seems she has so there is nothing more she should do or can do until that time. Making the Iliad of Buster the Dog closed one for me.

…or is it Knuckles.

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It does seem that Linda has found a trainer she is happy with, and is committed to sticking with his training plan, so anything I put out there will be rejected. I can accept that. But, here is what I would do:

First, eliminate that particular stimulus (delivery persons) from Knuckles' life completely, for at least a week. If delivery times are predictable, this should be easy. Confine Knuckles to his crate or a room with a chewy and the radio or tv on to mask outside sounds.

Second, reclaim the deck. Install a tiedown near the door to the house. A heavy guage eye hook and a 4' cable with a swivel snap hook for the collar end will work fine. Every time you go out on the deck, Knuckles goes on his tiedown. Put a doggy cushion next to the tiedown, and give him a chewy. This isn't punishment, and there's nothing wrong with him being happy and comfortable on his tiedown. Reward calm behavior with the occasional goody tossed his way, praise, etc. Any whining, squirming, or tugging against the tiedown should be corrected by redirecting him to a down, then when he has been calm for a little bit, reward him. Make sure you do NOT have him out at predictable delivery times. Remember to have him in confinement during those times. If something unpredictable happens and he gets reactive, just shove his doggy butt back in the house and close the door securely behind him (you stay outside on the deck) without saying a word to him. He is to get no reinforcement.

After a good solid week (or more, if you have the patience) of this, you'll be ready to set him up with a fake "mailman". Have the "mailman" carry a similar bag, wear similar clothes, etc. as the real deal.

Have the "mailman" approach, but stay far enough away that Knuckles is not reactive (by the time he goes ballistic, it is too late). As the "mailman" approaches, treat treat treat treat treat treat treat treat......then the mailman turns and walks away, and the treats stop. Repeat this two or three times. If the "mailman" comes too close and Knuckles becomes reactive, the "mailman" should just stop while you wordlessly stick Knuckles back into the house. Remember, he is to get no reinforcement; seeing the "mailman" retreat is reinforcement. Remember to practice this when Knuckles is hungry, and use food that he will do anything for. Do not set him up to become reactive!!!!!! Over time, the distance that the "mailman" can approach before Knuckles becomes reactive should decrease, until he can place a fake letter into the mailbox and walk away. At that time, you can try it with the real mailman.

The amount of success you have depends upon a lot of factors, and it's most likely that you will never get to the point where Knuckles will happily greet the mailman like a normal friendly dog. But you might be able to get to the point where the mailman can deliver mail without Knuckles going nutso, if you practice regularly, are patient and take it slowly, and are committed to the process. I think the tiedown on the deck should be a permanent thing, because it sends a clear message to Knuckles about just whose deck it is, and where his place is.

Of course, it would be a lot easier to just practice preventive management, and keep him inside when delivery people come.

do you think this dog would be interested in any treats while in his favorite down-stay position?

I dont think this is a dominant dog issue. I think this is fear based. Linda says this doesnt happen on walks or even in the house after the person comes in or any where else. Linda says this only happens on the deck when someone approaches the GATE. The gate meaning this is an area that is enclosed or you might as well say the dog is behind a fence. You know that even fear based dogs with bad nerves will put on a show when they have something like a fence between them and a stranger.

Dennis you stated
When you are sitting with him on the deck and he hears a noise and gets up, you say no down. he has already won. When he starts to THINK ABOUT getting up is when I say NO DOWN. My timing has improved immensely in timing corrections.
But, your method insures that this is going to happen so it is easy enough to try.

Lisa you are wrong- yes I am happy with my trainer, but I would not be looking for ideas and insight if I did not think that the folks here had worthwhile information to offer in an intelligent, clear manner.

There is no reason why in addition to what my trainer is having me do, I cannot introduce other methods into Knuckles training, such as the leash idea, your idea about the tiedown, etc.

We did have a mailman come to the house when the trainer was here, Knuckles did not go nutso, then again I have been working with him since March on his behavior toward the postal worker. He was skittish, and you could tell he was uncomfortable, but he didn't freak out.

The mail delivery is predictable. Knuckles is out of the house 2 days a week so he doesn't even see her. On the other two days, my daughter is here to correct, but unless she is on the deck with him he is not allowed out there.

Whether it be the tiedown or the leash, both of the ideas are good ones, and there is no reason not to do this, as you took the time to explain the reasoning behind the methods and why your feel I should do this.

Please do not assume that I have rejected your advice because I have a trainer.

The ideas presented to me seem like very good ones, and I intend on printing them out and showing them to the trainer.

I cannot see any reason why he would object to me using the ideas/methods you have described, because I don't think that they conflict with what I am trying to accomplish or his methods.

Thanks for the info, and if it will ever stop raining, then I can put the ideas into action on the deck.

Linda, I didn't mean that in a bad way. I think it's very easy to get conflicting advice on just about every aspect of dog behavior and training, and I can see how sticking with one trainer would be the simpler thing to do because of that. One trainer says go left, the other says go right, what the heck are you supposed to do? Someone on this forum has said that the only thing two dog trainers will ever agree upon is what the third dog trainer is doing wrong. Well, I'm not even a trainer by profession, so I'm not sure how much weight my advice holds anyway. I'm just throwing some thoughts out there, based upon what I have learned while doing my homework as a dog owner.

BUT, I think that there are some commonalities between what I have suggested and what the others have suggested as well. I just tend to lean more toward positive reinforcement than compulsion, but that's not a big secret here. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

....but my main motivation in all of this is that I just enjoy the discussion. If you happen to get something useful out of it, that's a bonus. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Lisa. I do appreciate everyone's insight, and Lee's read on the dog without seeing him was unbelievable.
Dennis, I will try the sitting on the leash the next time we are on the deck. I appreciate your ideas.

I am a little unsure about your comment
The Iliad of Buster the dog closed one for me --
or is it Knuckles.
Sorry, I have no idea what you are trying to say or get across. Do you care to explain??

 Quote:

Originally posted by Linda Wayrynen:
I am a little unsure about your comment
The Iliad of Buster the dog closed one for me --
or is it Knuckles.
Sorry, I have no idea what you are trying to say or get across. Do you care to explain??

Nothing personal at all Linda it is justa play on a play Epic of Homer - Iliad.

http://www.uoregon.edu/~joelja/iliad.html

Since the epic is by its very nature lengthy, it tends to be rather loosely organized. Not every episode is absolutely necessary to the main story and digressions are not uncommon.

I do wish you the best of luck with your training efforts and I think your dog can be helped with the right trainer. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Not that I have abig head or need my ego stroked...but the sitting on the leash was from me...

sniffle sniffle...Dennis took the credit...sniffle..

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