Concur. Many other good points made on the value of the prong. I'd only add that, other than being more effective for the administration of corrections, you also get more control of the animal. A dog can slip a choker no problem. A dog only slips a prong if it isn't fitted right.

As for the question of whether soft dogs can benefit, I'd say they do in two ways: first, in the better control. Second, in that you must tailor the correction to the dog. A soft dog doesn't need to be turned into a helicopter blade for even major infractions; a hard dog might need a swift one to the grape for the message to settle into his brain housing group.

Used a prong on a dog and it blew me off in a trial. whats your point? You have to use prongs? I have had days where I wasn't even sure whose dog it was, both bad and good on the trial field. And I used compulsion on those dogs. I am not talking about rescue dogs, I am not talking about sport (bite) dogs I am talking about fluffy. If you need a pinch to teach fluffy how to live, then you need to brush up on your training skills. Look at the original post people. Man sometimes I wonder what you guys are thinking. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

C'mon now, think about this. Your dog is trying to slip out of the choker?? What did you do to elicit this response. I have never ever had my dog try to slip out of a choker. I have owned a few dogs in my life. I have watched other dogs try to get away from thier owners due to the amount of pressure brought on by compulsion. Stop with the better control issues and get a better relationship with your dog. I grew up with these methods of training, then grew out of them. I don't disagree with compulsion, I disagree with whatever made your dog so afraid that it was trying to back out of a slip collar. Prongs are not necessary for soft Pet dogs. And just because they don't seem to mind doesn't mean you are training correctly. Crippled dogs don't seem to mind comeing to see you even though it hurts. Not trying to bash anyone, just bashing the idea that a PRONG is necessary somehow. I am guilty of all training mistakes including the violent ones in the past. Trying to show that it can be done without prongs.

Actually, what I said was that dogs can benefit from using a prong, even when it isn't used for strong corrections. Perhaps a re-read is in order.

Your argument assumes that the dog "backs" (note that this isn't the only type of behavior we're trying to control) because of some flaw in the dog-handler relationship. You talk about "soft Pet dogs", but fail to recognize that these dogs often have aversion issues with things or people other than the handler. Aversion behavior can cause problems for a handler, especially when the handler isn't the source of stress. The point I was making is that using a choker introduces unnecessary risk, namely in the form of escape, neck injury and other factors. A prong minimizes that risk, regardless of whether the handler elects to use it as a correction tool. Thus, the prong is the better of the two. JMHO, DNMPA.

I can't speak to why your dog blew you off in a trial; I wasn't there, and haven't seen the dog.

BTW, "control" and "compulsion" are not synonyms. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

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I am so sorry to hear that.

How is she now?

Rashmi

She's fine as long as there is never pressure on her trachea. Except - she can't be certified for her therapy dog work simply because they assume that a prong collar is always used for poorly trained dogs.

Mike,

I don't want to open the topic on prong collar again, though I have yet to buy one.(prpbably going to buy from Ed). Nevertheless, most of you guys talk about feeding "hot dogs" as one of the training treats. Real hot-dogs?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Doesn't that contain Sodium?
I try to keep small beef cuts. But my pup figures it out and spoils the whole idea of training. He is a PERFECT GENTALMAN at the duration of the training.

Also, if this results in a topic already discussed, do direct me to the thread.

Regards,

Rashmi

Rashmi I think that's been discussed before...I use hotdogs too (yes real ones) but in such small pieces that I go through maybe 1/3 of 1 hotdog in a 15 minute session. I'll see if I can't search for that threat and post it.

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Mike,

Yesterday for the first time my 5.5 months old pup learned how to heel. I bought a so called training collar. They told me if put as A "P" it is a training collar if put as A "9" it is a choke collar. I don't want to use choke collar on him. Is Training collar and choke collar the same? I want to train him via motivation not thur popping on his neck.....

The difference between a training collar and a choke chain is that in the P setting, the collar pops, i.e. tightens and then lets go, which can be compared to a slap on the hand, the choke setting will not release very easily after it is pulled upon, so the dog pulls, and pulls and it only gets tighter and tighter ... This, I consider inhumane, cause the only instance a person would have to do this is if they are tying their dog out in the back yard all day ....

As far as only using motivational methods to train you dog, unless it is a very soft dog, ususal at some point there is going to be some direct disobedience that is just looking for a reaction from you ... just be prepared to handle it firmly when it happens .....

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The difference between a training collar and a choke chain is that in the P setting, the collar pops, i.e. tightens and then lets go, which can be compared to a slap on the hand, the choke setting will not release very easily after it is pulled upon, so the dog pulls, and pulls and it only gets tighter and tighter ... This, I consider inhumane, cause the only instance a person would have to do this is if they are tying their dog out in the back yard all day

I surely hope to God that you're not saying that a dog should be tied out with a choke chain.

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The difference between a training collar and a choke chain is that in the P setting, the collar pops, i.e. tightens and then lets go, which can be compared to a slap on the hand, the choke setting will not release very easily after it is pulled upon, so the dog pulls, and pulls and it only gets tighter and tighter ... This, I consider inhumane, cause the only instance a person would have to do this is if they are tying their dog out in the back yard all day

A choke chain dont release very easy? Maybe when you are walking the dog on your left-side you have the choke chain on the wrong way, maybe you have it set up for a dog walking on the right-side. I have never had a problem with one staying to tight, I have used them for years. As far as the dog pulling, some dogs might at first, but a few "pops" on the chain and it normally dont last long. Unless you are "draging" your dog, and you sould never drag a dog.

David.