Sorry, but, like Van Camp, I have to have the last word.

So the other pups were doing fine...have they been vaccinated??? The parents have they been vaccinated???

If you want to declare this dead, go ahead. I like the debate. Others have chimed in as well. Its just apparently you and I have nothing to do on this Friday, everyone else is working... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As far as entertainment value goes, this is the best thread I have read all day. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I knew I could count on you!

LOL, VanCamp...I was waiting for that.

The parents were vaccinated and I'm sure most of the puppies were. We had questioned whether it was genetics, and although I still like to hang onto that sometimes, there really is no basis for that at this time. The breeder didn't take really great care of them, I do know that, but my boy was happy, moderately outgoing, he was the star of his obedience class. Then he had his vaccinations and my little guy went completely out of his freaping mind...and hasn't been the same since.

Hmm, I also like to have the last word. I guess we'll just have to wait for someone to get sick of us and close the thread <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> There really aren't too many things I feel this passionately about.

And speak for yourself...I have a ton of things to do and will be working REALLY late tonight cause I haven't gotten anything done! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I think this is fun....keep going!!! It's the only thing keeping me awake this afternoon at work.
Melissa, I do have to admire you for sticking it out with your dog. I don't know if I would have done the same. The kind of mental and physical deterioration you have been describing is tough on the dog and the owner. Not to mention being a 100% liability whenever you are out in public. I probably would have euthanized him. I just don't know. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Ok, at the request of Caniche...

Why would we not consider genetics as part of the problem in this example. If the parents were vaccinated, and the litter was as well...to me that says genetics, not vaccine.

For instance, you breed a litter and get one coated. It is genetic, right? Doesn't mean the rest will be coated. Do they carry the gene???( I know getting into breeding, just an example)

I would think it is genetic with this particular dog.

I understand, Caniche. Most people would probably have had him euthanized, and for awhile it seemed like that was our only viable option. He has improved a lot since I found this vet though. He does go out muzzled when he's in public. I also know him so well that I can tell he's about to freak out before he does it. I have such a deep bond with him that I pick up on these very subtle changes in his posturing & behavior. My husband never sees it coming, which is why I prefer to handle this dog myself.

Todd, are you saying that if only one pup out of this litter has this problem, that it's more likely to be genetic than if more than one pup had this problem? I know very little about breeding and genetics, but I would be inclined to think it would be the other way around.

We are getting really technical, but yes I would lean that way. Genetics are fun. It is an easy answer if say all the pups reacted. Automatically people would say, yep thats it.

When only one...now we have to think. There has to be some reason only one dog reacted to the vaccine. There are only to variables...the exact genetic makeup of the dog, and the vaccine. It is hard enough to know if all the dogs have been vaccinated, however, since the vaccine in question happens to be Rabies...it is a safe bet. The problem lies, in which company made the vaccine. This becomes an unknown. If we had all pups get the exact same vaccine, and only one reacted. I would lean towards genetics with that particular pup. There has to be something different in its makeup. Using people as an example. Siblings have different genetic makeups even coming from the same parents. One may be allergic to Chocalate, the other nothing at all. It has to be genetic.

In this case, it would seem there to be a recessive trait to lean towards the susceptability of Rabies Miasmesdndsaf(sp...lol).

Just a theory, as I am not a vet. I don't even play one on TV <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Okay- I have been trying to follow along with this thread, and it has been quite entertaining- kudos to both of you for keeping it civil.

My question stems from Todds last post when he said that since it was only one pup that has had a problem then it is probably genetics. If the whole litter had had a problem would it then be genetic how about if 5 out of 10 had a problem? Where do you stop saying it is genetic, or is this your total argument?

Is it possible that it is a bad batch of vaccine? You get 10cc in a vial and 1 cc per dose- that would mean about 10 dogs could have gotten from the same vial- maybe the other owners are thinking their dogs are just nasty? Maybe the rest was given to cats, or maybe the vial was old and your dog got the last bit and it was bad? I dont know if any of this is viable it just seems odd to lay it all on genetics or vaccinating.

Good luck with your dog, I dont know if I could have handled what you are goign through. I most likely would have written it off to poor breeding and a fear period that never went away and euthanized the dog- I wish you all the best-