Quote: sandy moore

I did want to mention one more thing. As I began the groundwork again and while I was working through it, I cannot believe how many things I let Lear get away with before, small things. Things I wouldn't have thought about because, well heck, I'd had dogs before and never had to be so regulating of their activities, or of mine toward them. The groundwork made those things starkly evident to me in a dog like Lear.

Just in the last three days I myself have noticed A LOT as well.
My question to myself is "WTH are you thinking Carol, you do not do this with your other dogs???????".

ALSO, was up at 5am, got to the Vet at 7am and his teeth are okay. They are not great by any means, but the repairs are solid.
He is a dog that had been fed kibble all his life and his teeth were never cared for really.

He is scheduled for a cleaning on Thursday, so the vet will let me know if he finds anything. I also had him do another blood work up as well, so I will have those results tomorrow or Wednesday. His "physical" was normal and he behaved well.

Michele, your comment about it being better than someone else screwing him up is totally correct.
As much as I would like to "lay blame" on the previous handlers, I know better. The dog has issues, but they are issues that I am aware of and chose to "feel bad" for him and become complacent, rather than keep on with the things I know are correct.

So, at lunch, I will go home and brush up on the groundwork video and order the video that Ed mentioned. I drug the aluminum airline crate into the house and we are starting over.


I hope that people can use this as a learning experience, as I have learned that I need to be prepared no matter what dog I am working.
A quick "Let's go run the dogs" can quickly turn bad, especially with the types of dogs that some of us have.
I was wrong, I have the correct equipment and knowledge and I chose not to use it and it opened my eyes as far as what Rock is capable of.......

What Howard said about being physically able to do what he does is key. That would never work for me w/Caleb. Caleb has never come at me, or ever hinted that he was going to, but I have had to choke him out for aggression toward others. Admittedly, the way I have done it could be quite dangerous w/a dog who would bite the handler (not to say mine wouldn't-he just never has). I am 5'4ish, and Caleb is over 6' tall when he stands up, so I have to get him in a wrestling chokehold/headlock, and hold him against me, cheek to cheek. I keep pressure on his throat until he relaxes and gags. Not pretty, and I have horrified family who have witnessed this, but hey-the object of his aggression would've been s.o.l had I not done this.

It is very hard to maintain leadership at all times over a large dog who knows damn well that you cannot physically stop him from doing anything, which is why I concentrate on respect w/mine. He needs to behave because I need him to-not because I can make him. Because I can't! Carol took a precaution when she wrapped the leash around his muzzle; I think this is key.

Sandy, I have seen what Geoff says in Caleb, minus the handler aggression. It usually is related to how much time I've spent w/him that week. He gets lazy, does OB slowly, if at all, and just generally has an "I don't give a rat's @$$ attitude." A game of ball, some time w/a sleeve, and all is well. So, I have learned that when I start seeing these signs in him, I need to step it up in OB, and just overall time, w/out coddling him. It's hard when you're that close; I know Lear is your baby, but there probably were signs that this was coming. Don't take it to hard (which I don't think you are). It's soooo related to age. I even toyed w/selling Caleb between about 16-26mos . He was awful-hateful, aggressive, stubborn, etc. Always sweet toward me, but not always respectful, and terribly territorial. Not to say he's "cured" but he has really matured and gotten even more confident, which I believe leads to not so short of a fuse. JMO, but he has really mellowed into a wonderful friend...who will kick some @$$ if need be.

Sorry to digress, but the Sandy/Lear thing surprised me and reminded me of Caleb at that age. Back to Carol, Rock, and DD collars & such...

 Quote: Howard Knauf

Unfortunately I've had similar incidents in the past where No real correction collar was available at the time of the offense. .... During those incidents I quickly grabbed the dog by both cheeks and lifted him off the ground while staring him down and telling him to knock his shit off in a monotone voice until he looked away.

I could manage this up to a certain weight dog ... and I just added it to the toolbox.

Wow guys this is a very informative post! Thank you

Me too!!

The other thing I forgot to mention in my post this morning was, I took this hard, and was really down on myself for allowing something that obviously could have been avoided.
I am thankful that I can be open and honest about the whole thing with the people here.

I got great advice, and other than being a bit embarrassed I am thankful the way this thread went.

If it helps one person learn how to handle their dog better or in a situation like this, then it was well worth the process.

 Quote: Carol Boche

If it helps one person learn how to handle their dog better or in a situation like this, then it was well worth the process.

it did! teagan challenged me last night (bit me when i picked up a toy) and then went up the line at me (she has been on a flat collar/line in the house) when i corrected (note: correcting is awkward if you forget one end of the line is around your ankle).

we handled it, and this thread has been SO helpful in evaluating what i did (cause i don't have your experience) - put her into a sit, held her by the sides of her head/cheek with eye contact until her body language calmed down, and then a strong obed. session.

obvs. though i need to be reevaluating how i'm handling her (re-watch the dominant and aggressive dogs dvd, and watch the pack order, haven't had the chance yet) and what tools i'm using....this thread came at the perfect time.

 Quote: Carol Boche

The other thing I forgot to mention in my post this morning was, I took this hard, and was really down on myself

Really?!


I've picked up a couple of different tools in this thread, and I've never been a big fan of alpha rolls...... but I can absolutely see myself doing exactly the same thing, given all the circumstances and the lack of options.

I sure wouldn't be beating myself up over it.

Recommending AGAINST it, yeah .... being unhappy over it: No.

 Quote: connie sutherland

 Quote: carol boche

The other thing I forgot to mention in my post this morning was, I took this hard, and was really down on myself

Really?!


I've picked up a couple of different tools in this thread, and I've never been a big fan of alpha rolls...... but I can absolutely see myself doing exactly the same thing, given all the circumstances and the lack of options.

I sure wouldn't be beating myself up over it.

Recommending AGAINST it, yeah .... being unhappy over it: No.

I think what I took the hardest was realizing I was being a "mommy" to him and not a "handler" and let things slide.

And, I do not do this with the others, so why did I do it with him?
It is one thing when you KNOW the dog has the potential to do this, but the "out of nowhere" thing rocked my world a bit.

I told Doug that I am going to go get a Chi dog so that I can mother it, put clothes on it, get a stroller for it, let it harass everyone with nasty behavior and talk mooshy to it when asking it to stop......HA HA HA NOT!!!!!!

Oh, I getcha: More about allowing the situation to have come up than about handling it the only way you saw to handle it.

Question for those who've experienced something like this, but have NOT swiftly dealt with it.

Did you find that the experience turned out to be a big and memorable pay-off for the dog? In other words, did it happen AGAIN at a disproportionatly frequent interval compared to the elapsed time preceding the first incident?

Or, in reality, did future behavior indicate no major change? That is, the dog did NOT percieve it as a particuarly great pay-off and success....just happenstance.

Curious.