Quote: cari hanson

Andy - there are people who TRY to commit suicide and fail at it, and try again later. Sorry I left out the word "try" for you. I think most people knew what I was saying.

If they tried and failed they didnt mean to do it. They were crying for attention.

But anyway that really doesnt pertain to the discussion.......dont want to get to off topic

Edited by Andy Deitz (02/17/2008 12:38 PM)
Edit reason: rambling....

 Quote: cari hanson

One day, 10 months from now, your guard will be back down and the chances of your dog biting again are high. Once a dog bites and draws blood, they're never to be trusted. ...

Boy, I hope that the people whose dogs I've worked with don't see this. They will be waiting for the other shoe to fall, with their now-geriatric dog who bit them when he was under a year old.


Some dogs can never be trusted. That is true.

But please --

 Quote: cari hanson

Look, I just voiced my opinion on a dog that bit a child, and what I'd do. I guess I threw in a myth (maybe a myth), "that once a dog draws blood it will again," that got you guys going. Sorry! I've always heard this growing up. I think if Sarah wants to watch every move the dog and child makes to prevent it from happening again, who am I to say it won't work. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable with the situation of not know why it happened to begin with. ..

is FAR different from

 Quote: cari hanson

One day, 10 months from now, your guard will be back down and the chances of your dog biting again are high. Once a dog bites and draws blood, they're never to be trusted. ...

Please think first. "Lots of people" saying something doesn't make it true. I know it was a misguided opinion, but it was posted as a commonly-known fact. We all have to remember that what we post here is read by hundreds (thousands), and that many of the readers are new owner/handlers.


And now ..... away from attempted suicide and back to the original post.

Hey Connie-I thought I said I wanted to step out of the picture, and let you guys continue on with your support to Sarah. Why am I still getting badgered?? You're not helping Sarah right now.

Once again, I'll admit that I probably said a little too much when I made the comment "once a dog draws blood, they're never to be trusted." As Jenni Williams pointed out, you guys are trainers with working dogs and are in a whole different world from us PET owners. But, when I read Sarah's message, it sounded to me that her dog, Molly, is a pet as well living in a family environment. I gave my opinion as a "pet owner" with concerns of the child.

Now, please quit dragging out my one small comment, and you can blame Rick for the hypothetical bus comment, not me.


** MOD NOTE **

The "bus comment" I made was my way of saying "Enough; let's get back to the O.P."

Pet owners need accurate responses as much as, or more than, experienced trainers. And we ALL have concern for the child -- and ANY child. The replies here were geared to the family-home-with-children situation.

The purpose of my comment, aside from getting back on track, was to point out that opinion laid out as a universal truth is a disservice.

Edited by Connie Sutherland (02/17/2008 06:18 PM)
Edit reason: avoid another post in this vein

The dog is young, your situation and living environment with the dog does not sound like it is a firm structure from my understanding of your statements, probably because the environment never needed to be evaluated before this incident. Sounds like you are taking the right path and figuring it all out. From your hard work a solution can be formed...good luck. My best wishes to you and your family. My hope is you resolve the situation ASAP. The last thing your Molly or any other of the PB dogs need is another tradgedy to their name.

 Quote: Valerie Tietz-Kelly

The dog is young, your situation and living environment with the dog does not sound like it is a firm structure from my understanding of your statements, probably because the environment never needed to be evaluated before this incident. Sounds like you are taking the right path and figuring it all out. From your hard work a solution can be formed...good luck.

Valerie, I agree 100% that a solid understanding and implementation of pack structure as well as 24/7 vigilance are the keys here, if the dog stays in the home.

To the O.P., you have received lots of good comments. If you would like links to more videos, articles, free eBooks, and free podcasts, please let me know.

Thank you so much everyone - even Cari who took quite a beating for her thoughts. I do understand where she is coming from, and for what it's worth I am what I would consider a moderately competant person ;-) and would NEVER keep any dog in the house that I felt was an imminent threat to any child. Molly is NEVER left unattended with any child. (which I couldn't say w/ 100% confidence before now that I look back) She is either crated or she is with me and under my constant watchfulness. Will I let my guard down in a few months? Will my dog bite again? There are no garauntee's in life and I would never expect anyone else to make the decision I have made. At this time I feel that I've taken all reasonable and safe precautions that I can.

As for the 'bite' itself - the trainer I had out to evaluate molly said that in all reality the fact that lilly only had a very small mark on her face that it told her the dog had remarkable bit inhibition. I'll admit I don't understand the implication of that statement but she did say that taking into consideration the kind of dog molly was she could have really done far more damage. No one is saying it's "OK" that it happened or that it's going to be forgotten, it's just something my family feels we can deal with and overcome. I'd understand if someone else couldn't.

Thank you all again for all your awesome replies I appreciate every one of them.

 Quote:

Hello everyone, I'm new to posting but only moderately new to the board. My dog bit my 4 year old in the face this morning. We were all in the kitchen, I was doing dishes, everyone was quiet it wasn't chaotic and the next thing I know molly (the dog) has launched at my daughter and bit her. No growl, and immediately after the bite she ran out of the room. It wasn't bad enough for medical attention but it was enough to draw blood and make me wonder if I should have my dog put down.

I haven't read the thread so I'm responding strictly to the first post. My boy Cujo used to try and bite people (me, kids, whoever) in the face. If I made a strange sound, his reaction was to snap at my face. If he was excited about a child, he'd want to launch at their face. Its just something he did. He never got the opportunity to actually do it, but young excitable dogs do strange things. At 10 months old I wouldn't read into it. There was never any aggression or anything like that, just a happy excitable snapping reaction.

Like Mike, I've got a face biter. She gets excited, wants to play, and believe me, the first time I felt her jaws completely around my face (teeth on either cheek) it left me shaky. She's more or less gotten over it, if she does lunge up now, she licks instead of biting. It was totally an excitement thing, and we didn't even really have to do anything, she just grew out of it.

She never did break skin (while going for face). Heh. She only broke skin when she went for arm. I swear she's ready for the sleeve. :p

yes, I have a pit bull who didnt understand the No Mouth rule and would mouth and nip in excitment. so it was dont lean down, dont build that happy excitment by those *deep* tension building looks (kids have a tenency to do those when asking "you want to go get it?" or "want a treat?")sometimes its a strait faced snap; but not aggressive, its almost more of an agreement to whatever was being said; even submissive.

Just for the sake of conversation, a big part of the reason we decided to go ahead and continue to allow her to live in our home was because we have had NO problems w/ her until then. Not what I would consider out of the ordinary for a young dog learning their place - perhaps that's naivete on my part. She is a doll around other dogs (except when there is food around), actually quite submissive from what I can tell. She's incredibly obedient, not much of a jumper, quiets down quickly even after new ppl have come in the room, and really an all around good girl. If she had had even ONE other incident like that one she would have been done - whether it was to euthanize her or to re-home her. I had another dog once before her that made me uncomfortable from the day I brought her home, while she never misbehaved with my family she had a weird vibe. I learned a lot from something from her, to NEVER ignore your gut.