Wanda,

I'm 55 years old, Hans is now 2. I understand many of the problems you bring up. I think you should look into a quick release prong collar. I got mine here. http://leerburg.com/prong.htm#quick

Once you get it sized it is very easy to put on and take off. You don't need the kind of strength (or pliers) that you do for the prong you have now. For my dog, I put him into a sit, gave him a treat, put the collar on, and gave him another treat. Same thing when I took the collar off. Sit, treat, remove collar, treat. He very quickly associated collar time with treat time and calmed down for me. (Calm being a relative term.)

I found the prong collar to be very helpful. And I also took my dog to a yank and crank trainer, who made him yelp, and I was very uncomfortable with that. On the other hand, when I walk him and change direction now, he comes right along. But don't assume that the prong collar is a bad thing because the other trainer misused it.

At 6 months, Hans was always either in the crate or being supervised. At 6 months, if he was out of the crate he was always wearing his prong collar and a leash. Like yours, he was bouncy, excited, excitable and, unlike yours, he was challenging us. The advice here helped a lot. Oh, and the only thing that could get his ears up faster than a ball was something he perceived as being edible. That's still true.

Now, at 2 years old, we still supervise him, but he is much less inclined to get into trouble. He hasn't mouthed in a long time. We also have an e-collar, but I wouldn't cross that bridge until I came to it. We taught him not to jump up on people using the prong and leash and popped him when he did.

As people have said before, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. But I understand the age issues. This dog is actually my son's, who is now 17 and approaching 18. If he should move out and take Hans with him, my wife and I are considering that the next dog will be a trained adult. After raising two kids and a puppy ...

Did you get the chrome quick release or stainless steel quick release? The chrome looks to be much easier to get on & off but I wonder if it is as secure as the stainless.

Wanda,

I bought the chrome collar. I have no idea why I chose that one over the stainless steel. Maybe because of price, I don't remember.

Rich

Wanda,
As you can tell from the responses there is quite a large variety of techniques and stratagies you can employ. They are all tested and work. Use one, mix and match more then one, combine bits and pieces from here or else where, you only need what works for the dog and yourself. Nothing is written in stone for how you have to train.
So you don't want to change the life style, ok. My advise is this; you say you already spend a couple of hours a day playing and running the dog with a ball. Start making her work for the game. Like if she drops the at your feet, you know her so just before she drops it command, 'out', she spits the ball out, mark 'good out!'. The same with when she turns from getting the ball, command 'here', she gets to you, mark, 'Good here!'. For the moment it doesn't matter if she has no idea what your talking about but she hears your happy voice commending every time she's doing as you want, even if shes' doing something through the normal course of the day. Mark any behavior that pleases you. She would not get to chase the ball until her butt hits the ground on a sit command, mark, 'good sit', reward....throw the ball. I think the point I'm trying to make is that work and play do not have to be mutually exclusive. You can play and train your dog at the same time Wanda. Keep it loose and easy and fun for the dog.
The other thing I would do is keep a light lead or tab on the dogs collar, at least initailly, every time she is out of the crate. Pinch collar, flat collar, fur saver collar (dead ring), it wouldn't matter she would have a lead on. It gives you something to grab or step on when the brat decides to jump or bite, or push the boundries. It gives you a chance at an opportune correction. Remember, fair but firm. Patience, consistency, patience.

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

After my grandchildren left today I removed the majority of her toys from the fenced in area. As you said she is going to work for what she gets. When I play ball with her I make her sit until I say "free". She trembles but she knows now I will not throw the ball until she sits for me. She refuses to bring the ball back to me. She normally drops the balls in one particular area that is of course chosen by her. If I try to take the ball from her mouth she runs off. I've tried walking out of the fence refusing to play but she doesn't seem to understand. I have never played tug of war with her because I had been told that it could lead to aggression on her part. I also ordered an easy release prong collar tonight. I'm working on it. Eventually I'll hopefully get there!

I also received a very helpful and encouraging email tonight from a breeder I had contacted before I found this forum. It is not the breeder that I bought Sheba from but this lady breeds working class GS & I was very impressed by the info. on her web site.

Wanda,
Try the two ball game. You mix up sits and downs and heels as she learns them.
Have fun.

Randy

 Quote: wanda bradsher

After my grandchildren left today I removed the majority of her toys from the fenced in area. As you said she is going to work for what she gets. When I play ball with her I make her sit until I say "free". She trembles but she knows now I will not throw the ball until she sits for me. She refuses to bring the ball back to me. She normally drops the balls in one particular area that is of course chosen by her. If I try to take the ball from her mouth she runs off. I've tried walking out of the fence refusing to play but she doesn't seem to understand. I have never played tug of war with her because I had been told that it could lead to aggression on her part. I also ordered an easy release prong collar tonight. I'm working on it. Eventually I'll hopefully get there!

Good, good, good, now get a very long rope until you can find a long lead...about 20 ft in length, throw the ball and when she doesn't want to come back you have 20 ft of line you can grab to make her come back to you, have her sit, drop the ball, then treat! Then she gets her ball thrown again! Not bringing the ball back is usually a trust issue, she doesn't think she will get it back or just doesn't want to give up what she thinks is hers. She needs to understand the ball is YOURS, not hers. If she brings it back then she gets to play some more! This will encourage her to come back to you. This has always worked very well for me! Good luck!

Wanda,

Reading all this brings a lot of memories back. I put a long lead on Hans in the yard because there is no way a human can win the keep away game against a dog. When I played two ball, I didn't throw the second ball until I had the first one. If I threw the first ball and Hans got it, he'd start to bring it back, then drop it maybe 15 feet away. That wasn't close enough, so I'd go pick it up, go back to where I was originally standing, then throw the ball. Eventually he was bringing the first ball all the way back, then I'd throw the second one for him.