Connie you are too funny

My original thought path through all this was geared towards breeding. How people with sport dogs say they are not breeding to create sport dogs they are breeding for working dogs, the goals are for the drives and working ability etc. But where is the line, then, since every dog cannot be the "true working dog."

What happens when you have "working lines" that don't "work" ?

This is why it started not necessarily what I'm still thinking. I will admit that these thoughts come from my love of a breed not too common in either the working or sport categories yet, the AB. Dogs who come from lines that have no titles or very few that descend from "real" working dogs where sport was an after thought until recently.

... don't mind me.. still musing ...

 Quote: carol boche

.... Or the GSD that is trained to find lost people?

Indeed.

I received an email musing that many people's definitions of working dogs really break down to mean "dogs bred and/or trained for bitework."

Very interesting .....

oooh, please! I have to clear up this misunderstanding. I was referring to the things Ive heard (especially about the GSD and the fact that American GSD's are no longer considered working dogs by the working dog people)But it is not my opinion that a GSD is only a working dog if it is, or has the capaciy to be, a police dog.
Like Ive said before I think that even certain dogs that play a role on the ranch are working dogs to the fullest degree. It has to do with the demands of the job being performed; quoting an Andy Griffith episode "you have to keep somebody out". If any dog could do the work then its probably not really a "working" dog. :smile:

Mary, I was being humorous, or I thought I was, when I said "What about a GSD who herds sheep," just pointing out that "shepherd" *means* "sheep-herder."



To me, a dog with a job is a working dog.

I don't know why it has to be a them or us conversation. As a farm system for the working dogs, the trials and tribulations of sport dog shows, be it for protection work, conformation, tracking, herding, the hunt, etc, these shows well may be superior to the hunt and peck chaos in days of yore for the aim of finding a working dog.
In my mind though the title of working dog is a distinct class of it's own. It reflects on the dog and owner/handler a special place. A class of their own if you will. A well earned place, because without them the community and in some cases humanity as a whole would suffer for their absence. Even people who don't like dogs recognize and give thanks to the value these dogs add. They are different, everyone knows it.
On the other hand the relative value of the sporting dogs rises and falls by our own individual whims and desires impacting very few outside of our own self interest. That I might have a dog that can win a fly ball contest one day and take the arm off a decoy the next day (I don't) only makes her a fine dog in my mind, not a working dog.
For me it's apples and oranges. Working dogs are special, if all dogs could do what they do; well it's a nice thought, but not all dogs can do it, thats why they're special. They deserve their own name, 'working dogs'.

My dog isn't broken any more, she sits.
Randy

Randy, well said.

I would just like to add that in regards to companion dogs I do think that there is a place for them as people who like dogs will always want them and have them. But I think that the type of dog suitable as a companion depends on the person that wants them though in general what people think of as a companion is a low key, low drive, calm house pet type of dog.

Dogs with the drive and temperament necessary for "work" are often too much for the average person, as people find out after they have made the commitment to a dog or puppy.

I look at the classification of working dog vs companion dog to mean the different level of intensity of the dog. How much or how little drive and the combination of traits that are necessary for the training and the work that we ask of our canines. That is working prospect. Whether the dog works or not depends on the handler/owner.

There are unsuitable purposes, training, and "work" for all dogs, no dog can do everything BUT every dog can do something.

This is my whole thing with this question... is drive the only qualifying trait of a working dog vs a companion? And I answered myself no because people have driven energetic companions and service dogs are supposed to be low drive. So for me it depends on how the dog is used by the owner, what the purpose is of the owner. The dog is still a dog, it is the owner who decides how to use/utilize their canine for conditioning to a home environment or in a work environment.

If the only goal is for ribbons and trophies I personally don't consider the dog a working dog I consider it a well trained companion.

Afterall, people have running shoes and do not run in them. People have fast cars and do not race them. The shoe is still a shoe, and useful and comfortable. It may not be used for what it is intended for/made for/capable of, but its fancy and looks nice. The car is still a nice car, and still fast, but is not a "race car" unless it races. It's just a pretty thing that humans want... just because.

But thats all JMHO

I didn't intentionaly leave companion dogs out of the mix, just an oversight is all. They have a real and valued place, and just like sport dogs, within their owners sphere. Not to the community at large. Like you irreguardless of the dog I feel they're very like people, every one is good at something. But because the stars align right or fate or karma or drive the special happens. Some just stand out from the pack. And when it does happen I just feel it should be acknowledged somehow.
That the final fate any one dog is so much in our hands is a burden I fear far too many people take much much too lightly. I beleive as you every dog has his days. However just like people the dogs also have members of the pack that stand out......For what ever reason.

My dog is broke again, she won't sit.
Randy

Connie, oops I guess I was the one who was "misunderstanding"

Oh and Jenn, GSD's do everything. LOL

Sit Cassie sit. Darn she's broken again.
Randy

I'm not sure why this has gotten so complicated. To me it's simple and boils down to 3 simple rules:

A working dog is a dog who has a job that is useful to man.
A sporting dog is a dog who engages in sport for the fun of it, both his and his owner's.
A companion dog is a dog who does neither of the above.