OMG!

I need a rolling-on-floor smilie. Replayed it three times.

Reminds me of a video from when I was a kid, on vacation in Garmisch, Germany.
My mom approaches two small dogs tied to a lamppost outside a store. My dad warns her not to go up to strange dogs.
Her response is caught very clearly on the tape, "German dogs don't bite".

Right before she got bit.

I remind her of that frequently when she hassles me about my training methods.

I also take great pride in pointing out that Schutzhund is German.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

OMG!

I need a rolling-on-floor smilie. Replayed it three times.

Looked like it yanked her completely off the NK9 training field.

Will! I am roaring....that's your best post yet.

I'm Jillian Blesser, I just haven't been on so long I was unable to use my old account. Anyway, upon reviewing my origanal post and the "responses" I still agree with myself. I've been training dogs for 14 years now. I have only been biten once, but it was by a Chow when I was 5. I must be doing something correctly. I have rehabilitated aggressive Pits (which is some of the most rewarding dog work I've done), I have trained countless pets whose energy level and reactive nature was going to land them in a shelter. I have done most of this work for free. The only benefit is knowing they get a second, third or fourth chance. So attack me if you will, but ask the judges what they want to see. A dog who hesitates out of uncertainty and fear of correction or one who is so happy to work that his tail is carried high and has a spring in his step? I don't do Schutzhund, so we are clear. I do, however, do dectection of many sorts, rehabilitation and lots of obedience.
I know adding pain (pinch collar) during moments of excitement or aggression makes the problem worse. Redirection and going back laying the ground work to find what it is that makes a dog WANT to work may take longer but the effects will stay. Pinch collars do give a person who lacks physical strength more confidence that if the dog lunges they have a chance at slowing them down. I don't see any real benefits otherwise. New research in dog behavior has shown motivational as oppossed to compulsion is more successful.

Yeah, whatever.

 Quote: Jillian Blesser

I am getting so sick of seeing a dog small enough to act as a yo-yo on a pinch collar. If you, as a trainer, need a collar like that for any dog under 35 pounds or 8 months old then drop the leash and go be an accountant.

LOL!!!!!!

I've got a 2 y/o Border Collie you could try this with

about 33# and pulled me down flat on the ground once when she caught me off guard...

But hey, if you think you can teach her with no food rewards and no pinch collar I'd sure like to see it!!

Well, my dog only weighs 25 lbs, but for nice walking the pinch collar is just the ticket. His flat collar is for herding, he's allowed to pull on that one.
I think it's great that you are a good enough trainer to get all this done the way that you do, but for me the pinch collar is a wonderful training aid. He doesn't pull on it at all, and it allows us to move on to other things.

 Quote: Debbie Bruce

The OP needs to go to some store that sells these torture devices (prongs), find the correct size and put it on her arm and jerk on the lead for all she's worth, then do the same thing to her sceptical husband, and then do the same to her 7 year old son. The looks of shock and disbelief from the lack of pain will be astounding.

That is exactly what I did when I got my prong from Leerburg.

Maybe required leerburg reading with a test would be in order before people could post on the forum, it might slow the trolls down a bit.

I tested the prong out vs the choke chain before using the prong on capone. I used it on my thigh, where it would be most sensitive. The choke chain really hurt! we use a prong here too!