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So if one is to base conformation on what holds up over time, they should wait to breed to dogs that are 7 or 8 and still holding up and not the 2 or 3 year old sire ;-)

I can tell you that I'm indeed privy to someone's bloodline whose couple of keystone dogs are around that age, and it's extremely reassuring to see them in the apparent health they are actually in, and the level of performance they maintain...which is nothing an x-ray or a KKL could have told me 5 years ago.

Yes, I suppose this involves some delayment of gratification to see what the dogs are made of down the road. Something the SL puppy inseminators don't worry too much about apparently.

If I get another personal GSD my own selection criteria will be a lot closer to what you're apparently joking about.

Or I'll get get a malinois who has 5 generation pedigree of performance, and pedigree paperwork one can blow their nose with.

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Ingrid wrote in part:
But it is not the training that I am talking about. I am talking about being able to hold up physically.

And you believe that any dog can hold up to the approximately three of training necessary for ring sports. The dog also must hold up while being trained for work and in fact this test for mental and physical soundness i.e., holding up, during training is a very large part of the dogs vetting process. IMO the palisade and the dogs ability to go over it, is more about vetting proper working conformation in a dog than it is correct drive because at that level necessary drive, more or less, is assumed. Regards Norman

Steven, I am not joking at all. I believe that if one holds to the form follows function idea that they can only assure that the form is appropriate if they wait to see how the dog holds up over time. I am sorry if you think that I am making light of this situation as I can assure you I am not. My young male came off a ranch - and this was when I was the VP of my national breed club - I caught quite a bit of slack for not going to a "reputable breeder" but at the end of the day, I want performance and drive and I went where I could find it not where it was PC to go.

What I am trying to say is that many people argue form follows function yet they go and breed to the young hot shot dog that has yet to prove their conformation is built for staying power. I commend those who look beyond the dog du jour of the moment and look at long term issues such as this.

Performance titles are great and if I was going to purchase a dog you bet I would rely on performance over conformation any day of the week but I still would want to know if those dogs were still physically able to work after the age of 5. I know some Malis that come from long lines of SchH III dogs that don't. For example, At my nationals this year there was a 13.5 year old bitch out there herding in the cattle trials and doing a bang up job (she is a CH btw). Now that is a line that has never really jumped up and enamored me but I am interested in learning more on it now that I have seen that sort of longetivity. A 13.5 year old dog that is out there herding still and herding well is commendable, particularly since cattle don't cut breaks on dogs.

Anyways, I think I have fully expounded my point at this time on this issue and so I will leave my opinion at this.

Best Regards.